Episode 78 – Helium 10’s CTO Tells How Hacking Our Tools Just Makes Us Better

Episode 78 of the Serious Sellers Podcast is another Tech Talk with Bojan Gajic, Helium 10’s Chief Technology Officer and features PPC and tool limits

It was during a fourth-grade math competition in Serbia, that our podcast guest found himself propelled forward on his path to science, technology and eventually, Helium 10. 

For the sake of accuracy, I do need to make two corrections.  

First, it wasn’t the math competition that was the pivotal element; it was deep fried chicken.  

And second, it’s not just any guest; speaking today with Bradley Sutton, Helium 10’s Director of Training and Customer Success is Helium 10’s Chief Technology Officer, Bojan Gajic.  

These episodes of Tech Talk with Bojan, have steadily become some of the more anxiously awaited conversations amongst Bradley’s stellar roster of industry super-stars and up-and-coming Amazon influencers. 

One of the things that makes these episodes so interesting is the opportunity to lift the hood of Helium 10 and take a closer look at the way the machinery works.  

There’s no one who knows the inner workings of Helium 10 quite like Bojan Gajic does. 

But first, let’s go back to Serbia, and Bojan’s fourth grade class and find out how this all started. 

While Bojan and his classmates were waiting for the results of a math competition to be posted, they were given a lunch of deep-fried chicken.  

Bojan says that he “loved that chicken,” and decided at that point that he was going to “do this for the rest of (his) life.”

It was soon after that he received a Commodore 64 computer, and an applied mathematician was born. 

If Bojan was at all tempted to waiver in his single-minded pursuit of mathematical excellence, seven days spent working construction with a neighbor (and the sore fingers and thumbs he was left with), cemented his resolve to refocus his undivided attention on science.  

After University he briefly taught, but soon decided that his interest lie in the practice of math, not teaching.  

What exactly is he doing with all that math? 

Bojan says that it’s simple; “a mathematician’s job is to identify issues and solve problems.”

But how did he get connected with Helium 10? 

It was back in 1999 that he met Helium 10’s Manny Coats while he was developing IOS apps that focused on education.  

Later persuaded to put off a trip to Australia, he came to San Diego to work with Manny with the intention to leave as soon as possible to continue his travels.  

17 years later, he’s happily (OK, maybe not so happily) making the long trip from San Diego to Helium 10’s offices here in Orange County in his role as the math wizard behind our tools. 

Listen in to today’s podcast as Bojan helps us understand why Helium 10’s tools have built-in limits, and how some of our customers have found clever ways to use the tools in such a way as to stress those limits. 

Now, we’re working with those same customers to make our tools even better!

In episode 78 of the Serious Sellers Podcast, Bradley and Bojan discuss:

  • 01:20 – Deep Fried Chicken Sets Bojan on His Path
  • 03:30 – A Passion for Applied Mathematics but Not for a Basement Lab
  • 04:30 – An Early Connection to Helium 10’s Manny Coats
  • 05:45 – San Diego at Christmas Wasn’t Horrible
  • 08:00 – Answers to Facebook Group Rumblings
  • 10:00 – Recognizing Tax Differences
  • 12:30 – Connecting with Helium 10’s Customer Service
  • 15:30 – Search Volume and PPC Impressions
  • 17:30 – A Brainstorming Session with Amazon
  • 21:00 – False Advertising and Unsustainable Loopholes
  • 23:15 – Helium 10’s Tool Limit Methodology
  • 26:15 – Pushing the Limits of Our Tools with Creative Applications
  • 31:15 – Superiority of Accuracy on an Order of Magnitude

Enjoy this episode? Be sure to check out our previous episodes for even more content to propel you to Amazon FBA Seller success! And don’t forget to “Like” our Facebook page and subscribe to the podcast on iTunes, Google Play or wherever you listen to our podcast.

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  • Freedom Ticket: Taught by Amazon thought leader Kevin King, get A-Z Amazon strategies and techniques for establishing and solidifying your business.
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Transcript

Bradley Sutton: Find out how a Fourth Grade Math competition, deep-fried chicken, and a Commodore 64 — all combined to propel our CTO on his path from Serbia to the USA and Helium 10 on today’s episode of Tech Talk with Bojan.

Bradley Sutton: Hello everybody and welcome to the Serious Sellers Podcast by Helium 10. I am your host, Bradley Sutton, and this is the show that’s completely BS free, unscripted and unrehearsed organic conversation about serious strategies for serious sellers of any level in the eCommerce world. And, back at us here with another episode of one of the favorite episodes of everybody is Tech Talk with Bojan. We have our CTO Bojan in the room here with us. Bojan, how is it going? It’s been a long time.

Bojan Gajic: It’s been a long time. And first thing I want to notice, how is this a BS free, then the host is Bradley Sutton?

Bradley Sutton: Yes. That is the only BS that they get– is this BS right here. Bradley Sutton, yes, but now we have BG here with us. So speaking of you, we know a little bit about you that you were trained as a mathematician. We know you were born in Serbia, but can you fill in some more gaps? People have asked me “Whoa, Bradley, you always talk about the origin story of everybody who’s on your show. But we don’t even– Bojan’s been on three, four episodes. We don’t know much.” So was your major and university math? Or what was that?

Bojan Gajic: Yes. And that was– I kind of decided way before that had a early aspirations and that’s when the area I was performing pretty well in the earliest days. That was three and four.

Bradley Sutton: So, when you were growing up, you were already interested in math?

Bojan Gajic: And then I was growing up. So, I was in Grade 3 or 4, when I decided that my major will be Math.

Bradley Sutton: Wow.

Bojan Gajic: There was a competition that we had when I was in fourth grade. And while we were waiting for results, they had lunch served and they had eat fried chicken. I love that chicken. That was so tasty. I was like, I’m going to do this for the rest of my life. So, that’s what set me on that path. I got a Commodore 64, so that was my first computer. That was a big in Europe, maybe not as big here. Kind of equivalent of over early Ataris or Amigos here. I graduated from High School, then to College, and then I decided to do some things on the side. So for seven days I worked construction.

Bradley Sutton: That’s on the side? A seven-day-a-week job is on the side for you.

Bojan Gajic: Well, no. That’s just one time. Seven days–

Bradley Sutton: Oh, seven days total. I thought you’re saying seven days a week.

Bojan Gajic: No, seven days total. Let’s do a construction gig. My neighbor did some remodel. That’s easy money. I don’t have to think much. Instead of studying I’ll go, it’s nature, it’s outdoors. I’ll do some construction work. And after seven days, I decided I need to go back to school. I need to focus and never do this again. Cause my fingers are sore, my thumbs were numb. That was kind of miserable experience.

Bradley Sutton: All right. That was not– your construction was not your career path.

Bojan Gajic: Definitely not.

Bradley Sutton: So was your major Math, or was it a fancy area? There’s Applied Mathematics or something?

Bojan Gajic: All right. So it’s applied mathematics, and I’m supposed to be mathematician working in some basements right now, but I like windows and daylight. So that’s why I’m here with you.

Bradley Sutton: There we go. So, is it four years in Serbia program?

Bojan Gajic: Yeah. Four year program? I stayed, I actually started career after that in Academia. I realize that’s not really for me. I did not enjoy teaching as much as I enjoyed practitioning. So I went back to industry. Working as a mathematician opens up a lot of doors.

Bradley Sutton: How does one work as a mathematician?

Bojan Gajic: Usually by problem solving. So, that becomes your job essentially, to identify issues and solve problems. It’s just not going to solving puzzles. You’re just not writing equations. You might be writing code, you might be drawing diagrams, you might be throwing org charts, but in general, your job becomes to identify issues and solve problems.

Bradley Sutton: Now, what brought you here to the States then? Professional athlete?

Bojan Gajic: Yes. I was a professional athlete in my– no, I actually, I’ve worked with Manny Coats from Serbia, back in 1999, year 2000.

Bradley Sutton: Oh, this is news to me. Where’s my popcorn? This is interesting. I didn’t know that you knew him that long. Wow.

Bojan Gajic: And I wanted to travel, so I wanted to go to Australia and I quit actually. I said, “Nah, I’m leaving. I want to travel. I’m going to Australia.” And he said, “would you stay on if you come over here?” I was like, “sure, why not?” I can travel to San Diego and I didn’t really have any expectations related to San Diego. I didn’t realize. Or I’m coming and I’m like, Chicago, it’s cooled and windy, and that was my vision of America. I’m going to America. And I like that. And I landed San Diego, it was Christmas time, December 17th, days before Christmas.

Bradley Sutton: So at home was probably super cold. Right?

Bojan Gajic: Right. It was freezing cold. Uh, I land here, my bags were lost on the way here, but I did not need my bags. I was “Oh, this is so nice.” So I would do this for more than few weeks. That’s what my original intention. I’ll come here, I’ll stay a couple of months, see what’s there to be seen in San Diego, and Southern California and fly back. 17 years later, I’m still here talking to you.

Bradley Sutton: Wow. Wow. Cool. So you work with Manny off and on then for quite awhile. What other kind of interesting things in your professional career before coming back to Helium 10 a couple of years ago did you do?

Bojan Gajic: I did the iPhone apps. iOS apps, actually. I did an educational iOS apps. So that was kind of fun cause from my life, I’ve been touching education without fully committing to education and having apps allowed me to do that one more time. Having kids as well helped me with that. And my wife, she’s a linguist and she’s actually born to teach. She really understands how to break it down and how to get people to understand and learn. So, working with her and having our kids, and we’ll do the process. That was really fun for us. For a couple of years, I really enjoyed that. There’s still apps in the App store, and hear my kids’ voices because we used our kids as free labor. If we’re allowed to.

Bradley Sutton: Yeah. That’s kind of frowned upon a little bit here in this country.

Bojan Gajic: We would go to Mexico. For our recording sessions, we would drive down to Mexico and then they would work there and we come back and there we go.

Bradley Sutton: There we go. All right, so guys, we all about 95% of that were things I didn’t know about. So we all just learn a little bit more about Bojan. But now of course, what most of our users are interested that the content that they signed up for it was your Helium 10 insights, and industry insights in a technological world of Amazon. So the first thing I wanted to talk about today was our Profits tool. We launched that. That was last year at our very first social, I believe was we launched that. And you were the one who launched it. That was the one of the few times our users got to hear you speak before the podcast. But now, there’s been some rumblings in the Facebook groups and I of course managed the customer service team. I’ve seen some tickets come through. There’s some people who are questioning some of our calculations on there. So I want to give you a platform. I’m sure you’re aware of some of these things that maybe you can give us a little backstory on what’s going on there.

Bojan Gajic: So lack of understanding, Profits is perfect. Just people. I’m just kidding. So, one issue, one kind of obvious issues that our user base grew significantly. So, any issues that some of our tools might have get noticed then and multiplied. Profits in particular our focus, our initial focus group and early adopters and people who helped us frame Profits the way it is today. Was it relatively narrow? So, we went after local customers, customers that live and operate in US and California in particular. So some of the issues that you’re seeing actually are happening outside the US and I’m not sure if– I assume that everyone is aware of how institutions in US tend to advertise pricing. So sales tax is not including the advertised price. And in profits we do the same thing. So, there is a base price, there is a tax that’s added after the customer added product to the cart. In Europe, that’s not how things work there. What you see is essentially what you get. So, there are some naming convention issues that’s where you’re having your certain items we will call item price. Certain data points will be identified either in price– that’s actually price before tax. Makes sense. If you’re US shopper, or you’re a seller when you go to Europe, you would not consider that either in price like that. That might be a principle amount or something like that. So, that’s one reason. Another reason is that we early on decided not to deduct sales tax, or extension VAT from revenue. So, we recognized stacks on the revenue side, but we did not recognize that as liability. Because you’re– especially in US again, you’re supposed to take care of your taxes and your liabilities, and you’re supposed as seller, it’s your responsibility, or it was your responsibility to remit taxes to local governments. But it was not mandatory. So, we did not want to presume that all of our users would be remitting all the taxes that they might owe. So, that’s relatively simple explanation, but it can cause issues when the numbers are being interpreted. It does something that we are aware of. You’re listening to user feedback, and probably by the time we publish this episode, some of those things might be– will be addressed.

Bradley Sutton: So sometimes it sounds like we might have an original focus group that we use to design the parameters of a tool. And we designed it to what their likes are. But then when we expand it, and then now obviously everybody can use a tool. We find that maybe the majority like things, or calculate things at different ways. So then causes us to maybe relook at our initial–

Bojan Gajic: The environment is changing as well. With Amazon and Nexus, and those paying taxes was remitting taxes. So, the environment changes– our focused group- the group might not change their behavior, but our user base has expanding, and we’re penetrating markets that we did not interact with intensively in the past. So our customer personas are getting more rich. And that’s the great thing. So, we will address that and we will continue to make adjustments.

Bradley Sutton: Okay. So that kind of remind me of people giving us feedback and sometimes I hear, “Hey, I gave this suggestion to customer service.” By the way, guys, if you do want to get your suggestions in, just make sure to open up a ticket with the chat in Helium 10, or send it to support@helium10.com attention suggestions. And we look at things, but then, I say that and then somebody says, “Hey, I suggested this, but I haven’t seen it implemented.” And, some don’t understand is if it’s just one person who wants some way, we can’t usually change our whole entire tool for that. But once we see that there’s a number of people who are interested in a certain tool or a certain marketplace, we open it up. We obviously first had Amazon USA. There wasn’t much demand at that time for Europe. Then there was, and now we have it all for Europe. But sometimes people ask me, “Hey, what about Amazon Australia? Amazon Mexico?” Well, we just don’t have that many users requesting that. And then sometimes, we do make it and then it ends up not– there ends up not being that many people using it. We had some requests by a small group for Cerebro and Magnet in India. But I’m sure when you look at the numbers, the number of people who have started using Cerebro and Magnet for India’s pretty small, right?

Bojan Gajic: That’s correct. And, the resources are limited obviously, so ideally we would cover every needs of every customer and every potential customer, but they have to prioritize, and sometimes we need Customer Feedback to do proper prioritization. So we do encourage customers to provide us that feedback. So we go out, we talk to customers. You have someone everyday that shares their feedback with you. We’ve all come that we encourage that and I hope our customers continue to do that.

Bradley Sutton: Yes. And, but just don’t get offended if the day after you put in a suggestion you don’t see a new tool for that. These things take time. And as I said, we like hearing from multiple sources before we act on something. Along with the theme of Tech Talk, another Tech Talk issue that has been coming up in the Facebook groups over the last few months, not necessarily related to the Helium 10, but kind of indirectly related to Helium 10 is PPC impression. So basically for those who know when somebody runs their PPC, or their campaign reports in Seller Central, it says how many impressions a certain ad got. Sometimes if it’s for a keyword, maybe they’ll see in one week, they all see 1000 impressions. So that means that their ad for that keyword maybe had 1000 impressions, but then they’ll see a tool like Helium 10, and I’ll say there’s the monthly search volume is 2,500 or 2000 maybe only, and the customers have been “well, wait a minute, how can there be only 1000 real impressions in a week, but you’re saying that the monthly search volume is 2000 or 2,500? What did that mean? The search volume is wrong?” So Bojan, what have you found out about that kind of conundrum?

Bojan Gajic: Our search volume destination comes informed by different sources. So, not necessarily a search term reports or keyword reports. So, some discrepancy, or some divergence is expected. Now, when you look to your REMs on Amazon advertising reports, you might be looking at your Keywords reports, which is different from your search term reports obviously. But even with the search term report, what Amazon will do, they will show search term, but it’s still not single phrase. So, what they do, they do so called limitization where they will trim the phrase, so they will unify singular and plural. They might– all the correct– they might fix misspellings. So, when you look at your search terms report, you need to be aware that even though it’s single record, it’s still not single search term. There might be multiple phrases hiding behind that search term. So, that connecting, marrying those two data points is not as simple as just finding one word or one phrase in your search term reports, and in our search volume estimation in Cerebro and Magnet. There’s only so much information that we can expose. And, it might be based on data that’s available, Amazon data that’s available on different sources. We continue to define our algorithm, and we continue to have conversation with all those stakeholders. Just earlier this week, we had new Amazonians actually flying from Seattle and San Francisco, to our office in Irvine. And, they sat down and they looked at some of the things that you’re doing, some of the things that they’re doing, that they’re planning to do. They are trying to help us build our tools, and expand our tools, and provide better service because ultimately, they are customer, and our customer is the same customers. So, all of us are serving Amazon buyer. But in this world, we’re looking at the Amazon seller as our primary customer, and these Amazonians have same interests in mind. So, you’re trying to provide, and you’re working to provide as much value as we can, and we go beyond just pulling search term report for some of our best accounts and then building our model based on that.

Bradley Sutton: Yeah. So another thing too that I told people on Facebook was when you see those impressions, somebody types in Cookie Cutter and they click on a listing, maybe there was an impression there in the search results, they click on a random product on the page. Now, there’s sponsored products on that page, and maybe the product appears there. Guess what, there is another impression. They click back on their browser. Maybe that’s another impression. So for actual search volume was only one, but just from that one search volume, there’s three, four could be even more impressions based on how many products they pick. So for those of you who think that search volume is the same thing as impressions, guys know it’s not. Now back when you said now about the Amazonians busy-ness, I saw them in the office. Unfortunately, I guess I’m not cool enough to have been in that meeting. But did you show– did you get a chance to show them our new PPC tool?

Bojan Gajic: Right. No, you’re cool. It’s just we’re not around when they came in. So it was “yeah, I’ll talk to Bradley later.” I introduced myself as Bradley.

Bojan Gajic: I’m kind of worried about that, but thank you for what it is. All right, so what about our tool? Did they see it?

Bojan Gajic: We did go over our tool, and they made some comments, some summary marks, some suggestions that we will look at the end of the visit. We also informed them about some of the observations that’s be made, some of the feedback that’s our early adopters shared with us. So, I guess that initial impression was good enough that they open up a sort of permanent channel of communication so that now we have open invitation too. Keep them in the loop about the progress that we are making. So it seems you’re doing something good then and that is being appreciated.

Bradley Sutton: Nice, nice. And guys, I get questions a lot. I’m sure Bojan sees it in the suggestions. A lot of people will ask us for different tools or different functions that might not be in compliance with Amazon, or things like that. And we always say no and I’m sorry, we can’t do that and this is why we have– We do have a good relationship with Amazon, and they’re coming here now. I know you’ve been going there to Seattle, and we just can’t get involved in those things, and some people say, “Hey, but what about this other tool company? They have–” Well that’s them. But you know, we just can’t. Basically why we can’t do those things because we don’t want to jeopardize our relationship with Amazon.

Bojan Gajic: Right. So there is actually in that meeting was used a false advertising that there are some things that are being thrown around as possible, that are most definitely not possible. You might be asking, “Hey, why is Amazon letting that slide?” Because they don’t here as much as we might think, but in general, doing some of the things that we’re being asked to do, even if it was possible, you cannot really build sustainable business. So, you could do things, you could try to manipulate reviews and you might find success for some limited amount of time. That’s not something that you can use to build sustainable business and provide living for your family, and for employees, and for people that surround you. So by not focusing on gimmicks and not focusing on loopholes and bugs, we’re trying to help our customers find success, not just today, but in the week, and in the month, and in the year. And, our retention rate and the feedback that we’re getting from our customers certified that that’s good choice.

Bradley Sutton: Now, speaking of our customers, another thing that’s semi-new that has come up in customer service, and this is not widespread. When I say it’s come up, probably less than 10 times, but things that never happened before is now sometimes people are hitting our limits in X-ray. X-ray, they’re using it– trying to use it over 5,000 instances in a day, or Cerebro. And these are things that at first it just boggled my mind because, I’m one of the– since the beginning I had been one of the biggest users of Helium 10 for all my tests, and case studies, and different things. And I have never even come close to any of the limitations. And now all of a sudden there are a handful of people who are, and they don’t understand why that there are limited– in Cerebro has a maximum number. It’s not level of subscription base. It’s not “Oh, okay, if you’re a diamond member, you get this many use of Cerebro. If you’re an elite–” It’s mainly there to prevent abuse of the tool right, for these things?

Bojan Gajic: Correct. So, the limits that some of our customers are hitting our implicit and soft limits that were put in place to prevent abuse. When you look at our tools, they’re kind of two types of tools. One set of tools are generic tools where every customer gets same results. So if you do run a search on Cerebro, if I run a search on Cerebro, same ASIN, we get the same results. There are also tools that are personalized. So if you look at Profits, or if you look at Followup, or if you look at PPC, your results will be obviously different than mine. Even the tools that are personalized have some abuse prevention on the back end. So one thing that we don’t want to happen is someone hitting refresh or running some automated script that will hit profits a million times a day and effects performance of our platform and having negative impacts on all of our customers. So even those personalized tools have limits and abuse prevention within place. Now when you look at those generic tools that provide same data to all customers and we have to protect ourselves from abuse obviously. What we look at– and we thought that those limits are set pretty generously.

Bradley Sutton: Yeah. I always thought that, like I said, I never hit them.

Bojan Gajic: So, on X-ray, that might be 5,000 products estimated per day. So I can imagine a scenario where single person runs through that in one day. It’s possible, but it’s not something that would be done in kind of normal course of doing businesses, especially not day in, day out. So we could come up with a sophisticated scheme that impacts everyone. Or we come up with this simple solution that affects only those that interact with the platform more than we anticipate. It’s like, think about, a T and T unlimited data that is, they say it’s unlimited data, but once youhit 10 gigabytes, it slows down to 128K. You can download as much as you want, as long as you can do it on 128K per day for a second. So we could do the same thing on -ray. So I could have 5,000 limit. And, once you hit 5,000 limit, I put the restore rate and then you get 10 back every hour. And then we say, okay, no, it’s, there are no limits. It’s just, there is a restore rate. So, you just have to wait. There are some legitimate used cases where customers, or users are following techniques, applying techniques, following suggestions, and sort of using tools in ways that did not anticipate since the Cerebro for example is designed to be Keyword’s research tool. Now we see customers, and I spoke to an elite seller earlier today who has legitimate used case and he’s using Cerebro as Products research tool. I looked at it as “Oh. Hmm, okay.” And he’s hitting the limit when he goes through that product’s research phase. And that’s something that we would want to address. So we will look at that and look at those legitimate use cases and try to address those. Now, there are cases where you have agencies that have multiple employees using shared licensed, shared login. We could enforce, we could prevent that by making sure that there’s only one active session. So I log in, I’m doing my work, you log in using my credentials, you kick me out. So that would be one way to address this issue. On the flip side, everyone pays for that because if you’re using, if you have desktop and laptop and your mobile device, you might be logged in all three, your checking your profits on your mobile, you’re doing your keywords research, product research at work at desktop, and then you go home, do some additional research on laptop. You don’t want to be forced by Helium 10 to log back in. And we have a– that’s kind of almost standard way of solving that problem you’re trying to be nice to our customers who are interacting with the platform the way the platform is supposed to be retracted. We are trying to adjust those limits. But one thing that we cannot do, we cannot just provide literally unlimited access to all our tools without any constraints. That would, it just makes no sense. We can come up in an agency plan. So if you’re an agency, if you have that specific need, if you want five people to use the tool simultaneously, then I mean obviously we would want you to purchase five licenses because those are supposed to be seeds, unless you’re an elite plan where there are some sub accounts. So you get some additional treatments, some additional benefits. But, if you’re in the agency, if you have a legitimate need. Reach out that to us, talk to us, we will try to address your use case. If you’re using the tool in a way that we did not anticipate, then then let us know and maybe we’ll try to make adjustments to accommodate your needs without having negative impact on the rest of the user base. Now, if you’re asking us to allow us to scrape our product database daily so you can resell it. That’s hardest to accept.

Bradley Sutton: Yeah, and I think people, like I said, they’re the ones who have brought this up. It’s very few, but I think most people can understand, you have all you can eat buffet, they say it’s all you can eat, you go there but you don’t expect that you’re going to be able to get 233 pieces of cheesecake because that’s not what it was designed for. And they would probably have 10 or 15 pieces. They’d be like, “I’m sorry sir, there’s no more cheesecake for you.” And, it’s a similar way. We have people using the tool in a way that it wasn’t meant to be. But where we show the specific limits in our pricing plan, this is where some people got confused is only when there’s “Hey, this is how many Follow Up you get depending on the plan. So here the diamond plan gets this, the platinum is this, the elite is this.” This is how many keywords you can track in a different plans. But then where it’s basically standard for everybody, there’s just a check mark. It doesn’t say unlimited. There’s a check mark there because there is no level based limits for there. It’s just our abuse limit, which again was designed originally to never even be close to touched under normal use. So thank you for clarifying that a but the last thing I wanted to talk a little bit about today, we talked about this before, about accuracy and for sales estimations and things like that. And it’s funny sometimes there’ll be blogs, or there’ll be charts that people put and they try and say how much more accurate they are. But, I don’t haven’t seen that much lately because I did some live videos that kind of showed, “Hey, what matters is how close you are to Amazon and Helium 10 is ridiculously close.” But on our backend, just to make sure that we still are the market leader and just kind of also we can laugh amongst ourselves about how maybe others are lying about it. We still do track accuracy between different tools. And can you just give us some of the, we don’t need to know who and what, but do you have any figures that you know off the top of your– I know you didn’t prepare for this. Any figures you can talk about at the top of our head as you monitor the accuracy of Helium 10 sales estimations compared to some of our top competitors. What are you seeing there?

Bojan Gajic: It’s essentially an order of magnitude. So, depending on how you measure error on a scale of one to a hundred, if our competitors as your 50, it will be five. And that’s what you’re seeing. You’re not advertising that outside this conversation that you and I are having.

Bradley Sutton: Yeah.

Bojan Gajic: There’s really no need. It goes back to that– black hats, gray hat things. If you do things well, in time it shows. So maybe I can yell and scream how my tool is latest and greatest, and they feel only so far.

Bradley Sutton: Any last words of wisdom for us? Can you explain to us why Serbia and USA did so poorly in the World Cup of Basketball or whatever that was?

Bojan Gajic: I feel like too many players from Serbia played in NBA, so they kind of got the USC book mentality.

Bradley Sutton: They got the USA mentality.

Bojan Gajic: You’re not playing here. We don’t care. It’s not on ESPN.

Bradley Sutton: All right, well Bojan as always, it’s a pleasure to have you on the show. So thank you for making the long trip. You are on the very farthest part of the office possible compared to the podcast room here. So thank you for making the effort to come over here. I wish you guys could see the video here. Bojan is dressed in his normal daily attire of a one-eyed pirate. Hopefully, there’ll be some social media posts about this later. But anyways, Bojan, thank you for coming and we’ll see you in a couple of months for the next episode.

Bradley Sutton: Quick note, guys, don’t forget that regardless where you are listening to this podcast, whether it’s on your iPhone or on Stitcher, on Spotify, that you hit the subscribe button so you can be notified every time we drop a new episode.

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