#172 – Is India the Fastest Growing Opportunity on Amazon? – Verun Rastogii
It’s sometimes difficult to remember a world without Amazon. When we think back to Amazon’s beginnings, it’s a shock to realize that it’s only been 25 years. After their second year, they already had over a million customers. Now, each month almost 200 million people around the world visit Amazon.com.
It’s probably not going to follow the same dramatic trajectory, but recently the Indian e-commerce market has been exploding with popularity. Today on the Serious Sellers Podcast, Helium 10’s Director of Training and Chief Brand Evangelist, Bradley Sutton welcomes Verun Rastogii, a local expert and Amazon seller to bring us the latest news from India.
Verun will tell us what it’s like to be part of an emerging e-commerce economy, how India is able to source the majority of their products locally, and talk about PPC keyword costs of only 10 cents!
Who doesn’t like the sound of that?
In episode 172 of the Serious Sellers Podcast, Bradley and Verun discuss:
- 04:05 – From the Family Business Straight into E-Commerce
- 06:25 – Flipkart in India
- 07:30 – India’s Dramatic Projected Economic Growth
- 09:10 – “We’re a Young E-Commerce Country”
- 12:00 – Amazon Prime Shipping in India
- 13:00 – India Now Sources 80 to 90% of Products Locally
- 15:55 – What’s the Process Like for a Foreigner Selling in India?
- 18:20 – PPC Advertising in India
- 21:05 – 10 Cents for a Good PPC Keyword!
- 23:10 – How Many SKUs is Verun Selling in India?
- 24:55 – How Does an Indian E-Commerce Product Launch Differ?
- 26:35 – Partnering with a Local Indian Company Works Well
- 28:10 – Helium 10’s Tools are Now Working in India
- 31:55 – How to Reach Out to Verun
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- Freedom Ticket: Taught by Amazon thought leader Kevin King, get A-Z Amazon strategies and techniques for establishing and solidifying your business.
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Bradley Sutton: Today, we’ve got a seller who’s projected to sell over $4 million on Amazon this year. In Amazon USA? Nope. Amazon Europe? Nope. It’s an Amazon India. Oh. And by the way, Helium 10 now works in Amazon India. How cool is that? Pretty cool, I think.
Bradley Sutton: Hello everybody. And welcome to another episode of the Serious Sellers Podcast by Helium 10. I am your host Bradley Sutton, and this is the show that’s a completely BS free, unscripted and unrehearsed organic conversation about serious strategies for serious sellers of any level in the e-commerce world. And we’ve got a serious seller from the other side of the world today, Verun, how’s it going today?
Verun Rastogii: Hey, Bradley. How are you doing? I’m good. It’s great to be here and talking to you on selling on Amazon on a serious note.
Bradley Sutton: Yes. I mean, I try not to be too serious, but you got to keep things kind of a fun at the same time. Are you in India right now?
Verun Rastogii: Yes, I am an India. India, New Delhi. The city called Noida, which is just 10 kilometers away from Delhi.
Bradley Sutton: So, near you is the local cuisine known for some good naan bread?
Verun Rastogii: Yes. There are a lot. There are lot– all sort of cuisines, especially, the kind of North Indian food that you guys like, Chicken Masala.
Bradley Sutton: Oh my goodness. I’m getting hungry now. Oh, no. Okay. Yeah, this is not good for my diet. Well, okay. We got to get back to the Serious Sellers Podcast instead of serious food podcast. So, I invited you on because we had first met right before we did that marathon, and people, I think don’t realize how in the last year or so, especially the Indian market is really blowing up. First of all, what are your projected sales here in 2020 for Amazon India? If you were to translate it to US dollars?
Verun Rastogii: If we were to translate it to US dollars, so I am hoping to do around 4 million in 2020.
Bradley Sutton: That is crazy. So I think a lot of people might not have realized that the market has come so far, Amazon Australia has been around for a while, but it’s very tiny still, I think compared to Europe and obviously India as well. Now, Amazon’s not very old in India. We’ll talk about the big company who’s kind of the leader in India e-commerce for a while, but before then let’s talk about just your origin story. So were you born and raised there in India?
Verun Rastogii: Yes, I’m very much born in India, in a city called Myriad, which is just 14 miles away from my current location. And, I studied here in India as well. I did my graduation from UK, and after that I came back to India and went into my own family business from there, I ventured into e-commerce and–
Bradley Sutton: Hold on. Let’s take it back here. You’re going too fast. You just did like zero to 30 years in like 3.3 seconds. You’re like a Tesla or something.
Verun Rastogii: I’m so excited to reach to the Amazon stage.
Bradley Sutton: Yeah. I know, but we got to slow down just like Amazon sellers, you can’t jump to a million dollar seller so fast. I don’t want to go through your life story so fast, but growing up there, was it always like a plan even from a young age to go into the family business? Or did you have other aspirations? You wanted to be a astronaut or something like that?
Verun Rastogii: Oh, nothing like that. I have always fascinated in seen myself in business since I was very young. We have a family business of publishing books, so I have always seen my family into business, and I’ve been around, then when I had vacations are days off from school, I used to go to my office, to my dad’s office with him. And I used to observe around how things are happening, what basically are they’re doing there, how money being transacted or what sort of processes do they use in their business? I was so fascinated to see how I can add value to this. And tomorrow, if I have to take care of all these things, what all I have to do to make it bigger and better.
Bradley Sutton: So then you went to UK, I mean, did you pursue a degree that would help you in the family business?
Bradley Sutton: Yes. I went to UK, not just to pursue a degree. I just went to UK to get an exposure of international culture. If because– we are a joint family. We are very like my father has a brother, he has a son and I have one younger brother. So we had a total of five people in business. We’ve got a big business set up here in India. So all of us are very forward thinking. So we wanted to explore more potential and more possibilities, how we can do better here. So all my brothers have studied abroad in UK just to get firsthand exposure, how things work like that. And how is it different there? How studies in India is different. So it kind of helped us a lot, thinking in a big and in a way to me. So two of my brothers have involved in the family business and I have myself ventured out into something different altogether. So I have ventured myself into selling a lot of different products other than my own family business. So that’s how I have entered into Amazon as my primary since channel now. So I am not involved with my family business, but yes, we are all together.
Bradley Sutton: How did you get started in e-commerce? Did you start into, and this is what I alluded to first, the major player before Amazon was a Flipkart in India, right?
Verun Rastogii: Yes. So Flipkart, now owned by Walmart. It is still one of the major, major player alongside Amazon. When we talk about the market share, Flipkart holds around 50 to 55% market share in India and Amazon has a different market altogether, which get us to yet at annual 50% market. I’m just comparing the market share of these two. Best we have what a couple of other market shares, we’ll just stay between five to 7%. So these are the two major players in the Indian ecommerce system.
Bradley Sutton: Okay. Now, just to give people an idea of how in the region e-commerce is booming. There was a study I just saw about projected year over year growth in eCommerce. And just as an example, United States is one of the top ones, you know, by end of year 2021, it’s said to grow 17%, but Japan, only 5% next year. Now the number one country for projected growth was actually Indonesia, 39%. It’s very emerging e-commerce, but the number two completely trouncing US, almost double US was India, number two in the world for projected growth, 33.3%. And that follows up two years of pretty good growth. So, the e-commerce market overall, not just Amazon is growing in India and it’s going to be something that people need to keep an eye on. So first of all, just real quick, we talked about this in Megathon, but a lot of people are kind of scared to sell in Japan because they’re like, Oh my goodness. How am I going to translate the listings? And how am I going to study the market and things like that. But for India, is Amazon India all in Hindi? Or what is that in?
Verun Rastogii: Amazon India is in English. But those who are– the good thing about it is it can switch the language automatically. Those for the Hindi audience. So if you have your Amazon app in India and you choose the language to be Hindi, so whatever listing is there in English will automatically get converted into Hindi. But at the center, we have to list everything in English.
Bradley Sutton: Yes. All right. So, people who speak English already have an advantage that to try and go into this market, as opposed to going to Japan, because it’s in English. So that’s definitely a lot easier. Now, what kind of categories are used? I mean, $4 million in any market in the world, even if that was in US, that’s pretty impressive. But what are your main categories that are, you’re really seeing some growth in Indian market.
Verun Rastogii: We are a “consuming” country. We are a young population country. So it is like fashion getting, it is like home improvement, camping kitchen, all those sort of categories are doing very, very well in India. But at the same time, you cannot expect to make triple or four times the money after your cost. When you sell in India, you can blend the volumes. I want to sell a hundred thousand dollars or a million units, but you cannot sell that I will make 200% profit on one sale. That’s how that’s how Indian ecosystem is there. And the competition is very, very tough. It is not that you are unlikely to sell anything. You are very likely to sell anything if you give innovation, if you give more value than your price. So you are definitely going to succeed, but that’s the key. Not everybody gets to understand this. People want to say that, okay, fine. We are happy to sell a thousand units if not 10,000 units, but we don’t want to reduce our prices. Number two, Indian consumers are very, very sensitive, like in many other countries, same in India. So when they have the power of social media, if you even make a customer feel cheated for even a 5 cent value, they’re going to blast you off on social media. This is what we have to be very clear about that. In our listings, we have to be very, very clear what the customer should expect. We just cannot show what pictures and less price. So then the customer should buy. We must set their expectations, very clear that this is what they’re going to expect.
Bradley Sutton: What percentage of orders would you say are mainly Prime? I heard, if I’m not mistaken, now they just surpass 1 million Prime members in India. If I was reading a report correctly. But like, for example, for yourself is almost everything you do Prime that you sell, or are you also doing fulfilled by merchant?
Verun Rastogii: No, we do a hundred percent fulfilled by FBA, Amazon. Hundred percent is Prime. We have one facility, which is the Seller Flex program. It is not there. It is not there in US but it’s there in India that we can fulfill all the orders, as for the Amazon standards. And it was still considered as Fulfilled by Amazon. So, it goes out from our warehouse and it shows it’s Fulfilled by Amazon.
Bradley Sutton: Okay. All right. Now I heard one of the reasons why Prime membership is going so much is something like it’s only $13 or $10 or some crazy thing per year?
Verun Rastogii: Yeah. Now, it’s about 10 to $13. Earlier, it was like $5. So it’s very, very cheap. And it’s is also growing because of the Amazon videos have come up. So Amazon Prime membership is required for the videos and because of the COVID, a lot of people have stopped going outside. So, this on demand television, these things are the source of entertainment. So a lot of people have operate for Amazon prime because of that also for everyday shopping on Amazon as well.
Bradley Sutton: Interesting. Interesting. Okay. So it seems like there’s a lot of opportunity now of what you’re selling, all of these projected sales and the sales you’ve had already, what percentage is made in India? Is it a hundred percent or are you also importing from China or USA or another country?
Verun Rastogii: Yes. We do import from China as well, but the majority of products are now made in India. Earlier in 2017, 2016, we used to do 70% China, 30% India, but today we are about 85 to 90% India and 10% China. We are trying to be– we’re trying to consolidate our sourcing capabilities and introducing more products, which we can source locally. So there are a lot of factors, which I didn’t board into this decision making of weighing everything, making India, because we have much better control on product sourcing. Plus the involvement of money is lesser when we source locally, so we can have lower quantities and we can keep getting replenished on a weekly basis, whereas on sourcing from China and has to be shipped by sea, you need to have at least 90 days inventory planning.
Bradley Sutton: Okay. Now, are you also selling in the USA?
Verun Rastogii: Yes.
Bradley Sutton: So can you tell me about the comparison? If you’re ordering product from China, whether it’s a container or whether it’s a hundred boxes or whatever. Is a lot cheaper to go from China to India, as opposed from China to USA or comes out the same almost because of the volume that goes to USA?
Verun Rastogii: It’s almost same. It’s almost same, but it’s a lot less headache when it’s going to US. Things are already sorted, but when we import to China, then a lot of– because our government policies are now changing day by day to make it more improved, getting it into, getting accustomed to new trade models like e-commerce is happening, all of Chinese companies that’s also shipping single order. So Indian government is now changing some policy. That is why there are the little blockage importing from China to India. But yes, we are prepared for it, but whereas when we send it to US, so I don’t find any hassles in shipping to US and then shipping directly to Amazon FBA, getting the inbound and getting the sales started.
Bradley Sutton: Okay. All right. Now what I mean, obviously, you’re born and raised in India, citizen and everything, and you live there, your house, your business, everything is there. Let’s say me, I live here in California, I’m an American citizen. What is the process like for me? Or what is the process for one of our friends in Europe to open up for an Amazon India account, what is necessary? Do we need to have an Indian business? Do we need to have Indian bank account? What’s the application process from what you know for foreigners?
Verun Rastogii: That’s a great question. I’m glad you asked this because a lot of people ask for the same thing. A lot of times I get so many messages about it. So it’s the system, how it was like when you have to work, when you have to sell anything on Indian e-commerce, you need to be registered as an Indian entity. You need to be an Indian company. So any foreign national who wants to open an Indian company needs to have an Indian partner. So for that, you need to give him some ownership of your company. And then, you can create an Indian entity, have an Indian GST number, which serve as a taxation ID, and then you can start your business operation. So in order to do that, there are a couple of agencies, consultants, and websites, where you can go directly and you can apply for that. They can help you getting up directed onboard as well, who is going to be the partner in your company. And that partner is a sleeping partner. He does not get any interference in your business. He’s just there on paper so that you complete your formalities to open the business in India. After that, you are required to file regular taxation returns, which again, those consultant or agencies can help you with doing, and then whatever the taxes I do, you need to just make that payment. And, the most important thing is how you do the financial transactions. So for the financial transactions, you need to have your own bank account of that company in India. And all the money will go to that country in India. But to take that money out of India, you need to file some papers with the bank. So they submit with the government. So the government knows, okay, how much money is going out of India.
Bradley Sutton: Interesting. Interesting. Okay. So one cool thing is that I believe, the token for that people use for MWS is actually connected to the European one. So, if somebody has a European account or even a US account, it’s actually within your same seller central account, you’re able to apply for Amazon India. It’s not like if you’re selling Europe or selling in USA, you have to open up a completely new account and different email address and stuff. No, you can apply right within your existing seller central account. What’s the state of PPC over there? Is that pretty much how you launch, how you get to page one over there, or do you do things like Facebook ads, and giveaways or promotional discounts or things like that?
Verun Rastogii: So every site has got a different strategy of working. I would like to say that because when it comes to India, it’s not like US. And, we will sell products as a brand or as a seller. If we are sending out products as a brand, then there is an entirely different strategy of how to make sure you are visible and turned off your audience. But majorly, what we are talking is we are selling as a seller. We don’t have any popular brand name with us. We have our own private label, and we now are trying to sell as a seller. So when you try to sell as a seller, you have to make sure that you get visibility. So you would have an option to do pay per click ads on Amazon advertising. So for any new seller who is not popular there, and he needs to build visibility, he needs to spend some good money. He cannot expect any return on their investment for at least three to six months initially. Once he’s there, when he went his ASINs, I’ve got some traction. They’re able to get some sales and get some ranking. Then, it makes a little sense to get a lesser ACOS. But I would always suggest as per my strategy, how we work is we must always focus on building brand awareness campaigns on Facebook, Instagram, that leads to their social media accounts. Make people aware about what they are and then telling them, look, if I am available on Amazon, India. Plus, then they should also run ads for making people go to their landing pages. So there’s a traffic based. So that landing pages convert their part process into buying that process. And then they will do Amazon to buy your product. So this particular exercise is very important for them when you want to launch yourself in Amazon, if you want people to consider buying your product. So this is something I do for my product launches and all.
Bradley Sutton: Okay. Okay. How does your cost per click kind of compare to USA? I mean, I would imagine a lot less because it’s maybe less competition, like we’re on big competitive markets in the USA. You’re paying sometimes three, $4 a click on expensive keywords, but how high do you pay on your PPC in India?
Verun Rastogii: You’re going to find it very funny that the spend, the pay per click, the cost per click is hardly five to 6 cents that we worked on in India.
Bradley Sutton: Did you say five or 6 cents?
Verun Rastogii: Five to 6 cents? Yes. And for some popular keywords, it’s 10, 12 cents. And some very popular keywords to know the highest I have paid today is 50 cents.
Bradley Sutton: Oh, the big money in PPC. Oh my goodness.
Verun Rastogii: On the other side, I had never considered the cost per click as the metric to evaluate the performance of any advertisement, because at the end of the day, we calculate the costs accordingly and then price the product accordingly. So we do not have so much of margins in India even to pay too much off cost on advertisement. It becomes a relevant to advertise on Amazon if we have to spend two to four dollars. Because people don’t pay us for a bag that I sell in $10 here in India, I can easily list $40 in Europe.
Bradley Sutton: Speaking of products, then, I mean, we’re going to talk about this in a couple of minutes that now Helium 10 works in India for a lot of product research tools like black box. But, this was just this week that we started Helium 10 in India, but before then, or just in general, how does the typical Amazon seller, or how do you find opportunity in India? How did you pick the niches that you’re selling in?
Verun Rastogii: There are several ways. The ways where you use tools and there are other ways where you use your market– no, brand analytics also helps us to research on keywords of the top performing products, but they are not too elaborate to be honest.
Bradley Sutton: Okay. So, you’ve done your product research. You’ve launched. You obviously found a lot of successful products to be projected at $4 million. Now, about how many SKUs is that?
Verun Rastogii: If you talk about my product. So basically I am into multiple categories, which are dominating my sales, so my major categories are luggage and watches, and we also introduced a line of fashion products now. So typically if I were to say, we are now 300 to 320 products.
Bradley Sutton: Okay. And you talked about, okay. Yes. The PPC cost per click is very low, but at the same time, the Indian market is very price conscious. So what’s your profit margins compared to USA?
Verun Rastogii: Okay, fine. So in USA, the business model is entirely different. We are not present with as many products as they are in India, and even my products are different than US and products are different in India. So there is no point comparing the profit margins, but yes, if I talk about India, at any given point of time for an established product, so you can talk about 20 to 25% net. And then, for any new launches, we try to get break even in 60 days. And then gradually after six to eight months, we aim at achieving 20, 25 questions.
Bradley Sutton: Okay. If I have a successful product in the States, let’s just take it for example, Project X Coffin shelf. Do I use the same ASIN when I open an Amazon India, or do I start from scratch or do I use the same ASIN kind of like you’re doing Europe, and then you get to have the same in the beginning of the same reviews and things like that? Or how does that work when you’re launching a product in India that’s existing in Europe or the USA?
Verun Rastogii: Yes. You can use the same ASIN. You can map your same ASIN and then you get all the reviews replica.
Bradley Sutton: Okay. That’s good to know.
Verun Rastogii: But there are chances sometimes Amazon, if they have any issues with that, they might hide your US reviews. But in maximum cases, I have never seen this. And you generally get all your reviews, consolidate it together at an Indian.
Bradley Sutton: All right. So, I think our typical listeners, I mean, we do have some listeners in India and of course, I know you would just tell them, Hey, absolutely. try and start selling on Amazon when you can, but for the typical American Amazon seller, the typical European one, is it a good opportunity for them to try and open up, as a foreigner, you talked about what you have to do to do that, but is it worth it to go there? Will they be able to make profit importing maybe from China or importing from somewhere else and paying the fees and getting everything done, can somebody make money there on Amazon India?
Verun Rastogii: So there’s a different approach altogether, when you want to plan to come to India. So India is a market, it requires a lot of compliances to get going. And also if you’re sitting in US and if you have any local compliance and you are not available locally in India, it’s not difficult, but it’s also not as easy at it in Europe or US to get those compliances sorted without you being available here locally. So my suggestions to American or European sellers would be to come to India and partner with a company who’s already there in e-commerce marketplace and have an exclusive sort of arrangement. It could be like, you’ve got a partner you could invest in that company and then together you are selling the product and doing it, or you can make that company, a distributor of your products, who has been authorized to send you a product exclusively in India. And you can take care of your brand, building your advertising and everything, and he can take care of fulfilling, or you can have a fulfillment partner head in India who only does fulfillment for you and things like that. So you need to carefully walk out on an approach like that. So here in India, maybe we do– so I want to international partners like that in that way. So this is how I said district works, but if you come directly, initially you will have to face a lot of challenges. And, I don’t know if you’re ready for it. If you are ready for it, then yes. Those challenges have solutions also. You don’t have to worry too much about it and you can vote it out, but yes, you’ve got to be prepared for it.
Bradley Sutton: Okay. All right. Excellent. That’s good to know. And I’m sure a lot of people after hearing this, especially with, uh, seeing how e-commerce is booming over there are very interested in capitalizing on emerging markets. It’s something that you guys should definitely look into, especially if you have local contacts though, it sounds like it’ll make it all the easier. Now, as I briefly alluded to before, as of this week, we haven’t made some big announcement yet because it’s still kind of in beta and while we’re just testing things out, but we have functionality in a lot of our tools now for Amazon India. For those who are already selling on Amazon India and for those interested that Helium 10 Profits works, Refund Genie, Keyword Tracker, all the five tools in Black box, Cerebro, Magnet, Index Checker, list goes on and on guys, we, by popular demand, we have launched a product. And now, obviously you’ve only known about it for a couple of days, but have you started using any of the new functionality that we have for India?
Verun Rastogii: Yep. So I have– I’m enjoying using this Keyword Tracker now.
Bradley Sutton: Yeah. So you could see, how did you track your keywords before this, did you just have to have somebody go check? Are you on page one or page two?
Verun Rastogii: You got it right. So we have a one hour session every day where we have a link of all the gamers in our notepad and we keep clicking them quickly. So that in 10 minutes we are clicking all the keywords, opening multiple tabs, and then we keep checking on it. Okay. Then same, same thing at the same time. And we are opening that we are checking our reviews and have we got any good reviews or bad review or things like that. And then we also check the rank. So we have segregated these 50 products we are going to check on Mondays, Tuesdays, and Wednesdays. So weekly, we keep checking our products. So, this is how we used to do men will order product listing and performing on each and every desired keyword.
Bradley Sutton: Well, now you have Helium 10, we didn’t cost one of your employees their job? They have nothing to do.
Verun Rastogii: Life is easy now.
Bradley Sutton: Okay. All right. That’s good. That’s good. Well, guys, if you’re selling it in India, make sure that you’re utilizing these tools and let us know, like I said, this is beta, of course, as anything that we just launched, there’s going to be different bugs and everything, and we can’t possibly find all the bugs ourselves. So that’s why we rely on you. So anybody who is selling in India, please start using the tool and send messages to support, YouTube, our own of course, things that you guys find, let us know on how we can improve the tool. And, we’ll do that for you. Now, you’ve given us a lot of tips about selling it India. So, we have this part of the show that we call the TST or T S T, 30-second tip. So what is something that you haven’t told us yet that you can say, and maybe 30 seconds or less, and it’s very valuable for our listeners to follow through on.
Verun Rastogii: I’m focusing only on international sellers who have not yet here in India. So the step is for them. So I would advise you to stay patient and focused if you want to have be here. You have to have a vision of at least 24 months when you launch your product strategically. Try to scale it up and then start making money out of that product. You cannot achieve this in 30 days, you need to have a 24 month window and trust me in 24 months, you can make your person to the top hundred ranks definitely, if you follow the right strategy, just be patient.
Bradley Sutton: Hey, that’s good advice. I think in any marketplace, especially just like you were at the beginning of this podcast, sometimes people are impatient and they try and sell too speedily, but anyways, Verun, thank you so much for taking your time. I mean, this is the weekend for you, so I appreciate you coming on. If people have more questions, how can they find you and maybe reach out to you?
Verun Rastogii: I’m on LinkedIn, I’m on a Facebook messenger, Facebook messenger, and WhatsApp is what I prefer. LinkedIn– it’s just too complicated for me at this time,
Bradley Sutton: I’m trying to get more on LinkedIn lately, but I just haven’t been able to really crack the code. I have too many marketplaces already. So the way you spell Verun’s name is V E R U N. And last name R A S T O G I I. So guys, if you’re looking for help, send him a message. We have thousands of listeners. I hope not everybody sends you a messages at the same time, otherwise going to be very busy, but I appreciate, you offering yourself to help out sellers who are interested in Indian market. And I love to talk to you sometime next year to see were you able to reach that 4 million sales goal you have, and maybe even did more. But be definitely talking to in the coming months.
Verun Rastogii: Sure, Bradley. Thank you so much for having me.
Bradley Sutton: All right. Thanks a lot.
Verun Rastogii: Thank you. Bye.
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