#503 –  Maximizing Holiday Sales: Amazon PPC Strategies and AMA with Mina Elias

Video of the episode at the bottom

Get set to sail through the bustling holiday season sales with ease and finesse as we bring you this month’s TACoS Tuesday PPC expert, Mina Elias, Founder of Trivium Group. Ready to divulge his invaluable strategies tailored for Black Friday, Cyber Monday, and the entire holiday season, Mina introduces us to the art of optimizing ads. Listen closely as Mina recounts his own experiences and shares the lessons learned from past mistakes to ensure you make the most of your holiday sales.

Whether your product is a Black Friday hit or not, we’ve got the perfect strategies to maximize your sales and click-through rates. Discover the clever technique of adjusting your bids to your benefit and the smart way to maintain your spending within limits. We reveal some hidden gems on best utilizing the holiday season with budget recommendations and crafting holiday-specific ad campaigns. 

Finally, we get into the world of Amazon DSP, providing insights on increasing conversion rates. Uncover the secrets of the optimal spend and timeframe for DSP, learn about bidding strategies for supplements, and also evaluate the effectiveness of Google ads. As we wrap up, we share some valuable tips on targeting long-tail keywords, setting and increasing bids, and making the tough choice between what ad types are top priorities. Tune in for these expert insights and make the most of your holiday season Amazon sales!

In episode 503 of the Serious Sellers Podcast, Carrie and Mina discuss:

  • 00:00 – Black Friday, Cyber Monday, & Holiday Amazon PPC Strategies
  • 00:13 – Amazon Prime Day Feedback
  • 04:01 – Sales And Advertising Strategies for Seasonal Products
  • 04:52 – Bidding Strategy for Holiday Shopping Events
  • 10:53 – Split Testing for Main Images
  • 13:57 – Holiday PPC Budget and Sponsored Campaigns
  • 15:14 – Adjusting PPC Budget for Holiday Season
  • 23:07 – Custom Images in Sponsored Brand Ads
  • 26:53 – Running Amazon DSP
  • 31:42 – Amazon Rank and Bidding Strategy
  • 34:08 – PPC Strategy for TACoS and Keywords
  • 35:09 – PPC Strategy for Improving Conversion Rates

Transcript

Carrie Miller:

Today we’re talking with Mina Elias from the Trivium Group and he’s going to give PPC strategies for Black Friday, Cyber Monday and the holiday season in general. This and so much more on today’s episode.

Bradley Sutton:

How cool is that? Pretty cool, I think. Not sure on what main image you should choose from, or maybe you don’t know whether buyers would be interested in your product at a certain price point. Perhaps you want feedback on your new brand or company logo. Get instant and detailed market feedback from actual Amazon Prime members by using Helium 10 Audience Just entering your poll or questions and, within a short period of time, 50 to 100 or even more Amazon buyers will give you detailed feedback on what resonates with them the most. For more information, go to h10.me forward. Slash audience.

Carrie Miller:

Hello everyone, welcome to another episode of this Serious Sellers Podcast by Helium 10. I’m your host, Carrie Miller, and this is our TACoS Tuesday, where we answer all of your PPC questions. We have an expert guest who’s going to help answer all of your burning questions, especially for the holidays. Today on our show, we have Mina Elias, and I’m so excited to have him on. He’s an expert in PPC and so I’m going to go ahead and bring him on.

Mina:

What’s up? What’s up, guys.

Carrie Miller:

Thanks again for coming on live with me. I’m so excited you’re here.

Mina:

I know. Thank you for having me. It’s been a minute since I’ve done a TACoS Tuesday.

Carrie Miller:

Yeah, do you want to just introduce yourself a little bit, so everyone knows who you are, and a little bit about you and your agency.

Mina:

Yeah, my name is Mina Elias. I’m the founder of Trivium Group, which is an Amazon agency, amazon marketing agency. We handle pretty much everything on Amazon for brands. I started as a supplement brand in 2018, using Helium 10 religiously, of course. I grew and scaled that brand to over a million dollars. It’s called MMA Nutrition In 2021, there was a very large demand for people coming to me saying please run my PPC and stuff like that. I ended up starting an Amazon ads agency. Initially it was just Amazon PPC. Now we do PPC, DSP, SEO, creatives, helping brands launch on Amazon all that kind of stuff. I actually worked with Helium 10 on their PPC course. If you are a member of Helium 10, if you haven’t checked it out yet, you should definitely check it out. It is a full, thorough course. Me and Vince Montero did it together. It’s like beginner all the way to advanced. It’s everything that I do in our business for managing ads. I love sharing everything that we are doing and learning. We have about 150 brands under management, 80 people on the team. We’re learning a lot every day and Amazon is changing. I know that it’s hard. When I started out, it was very hard for me to know what’s good and what’s not good. I’m here to share my experience and then hopefully it benefits everyone.

Carrie Miller:

Awesome. Well, thanks so much. I have some questions prepared here for Meena that are more holiday oriented. This should be a really good episode. Here’s the first question what is your Black Friday, Cyber Monday strategy?

Mina:

Cool. I love talking about this because on prime days and Black Friday, cyber Monday, I mean one wrong move and you could end up losing all of your profits. The reason I say this is because that happened to me multiple years in a row, at least two years in a row, where I was following the strategy of spend a lot of money on ads, do deep discounts and then you’re going to sell four times more on Black Friday, cyber Monday or Prime Day. I did sell four times more, but I also spend way more and it resulted in me losing money or not making profits those days. There’s two categories in which products fall. One category is they do very well in Black Friday, cyber Monday and Prime Day. I’m talking like expensive products, giftable products. You should know your product. If you don’t, I suggest that you go into Helium 10 and you can see the performance historically of product sales over time, and I think Bradley did a video on this. It’s on my YouTube channel, just Meena Elias. You’ll find a video of me and Bradley and he uses X-ray and cerebro to show you historically how has this product sold and if you notice that certain products or you don’t know if your product is going to sell a lot and you notice that there’s a spike, then you’re like, okay, my product might fall into that category of it’s going to do really well Black Friday, cyber Monday. So if you’re in that category, I’m going to give you the strategy which is leading up to Black Friday, cyber Monday or any Prime Day. You basically want to increase your bids. You know that you’re going to do a deal, so you want to increase your bids and get as much rank as you can, because during Black Friday, cyber Monday, you’re probably going to have to decrease it a little bit because you might not be able to handle the volume of the spend that’s going to happen from all of the additional people coming in onto the platform. So you’re initially increASINg your bids 30 days before you know you have a deal coming. The day of, you know the day before, I would say, and then the day of and then day after, you’re going to lower your bids a little bit, probably I would say by 10%, nothing crazy and you want to check frequently that you’re you know how much your spend is and you want to make sure that it’s not out of control. There’s also guardrails. I wouldn’t do account level budgets, but if you have a software, you know you could do some sort of automation where it’s like if you hit a certain spend in that day, then you know, lower your bids or your budgets by certain amounts so you’re not overspending Again.

Mina:

The thing that I learned the hard way was, you know, I would, on average, sell $2,000 a day. The Prime Day came, black Friday, the 7th of Monday came, I sold $4,000, but instead of spending an average of, like you know, 400 to 500, I spent 1,500. And that extra 1,000 or whatever in profit that I was going to make because of the sales, it all went to ads and I ended up not making as much money or losing money. And you know why would I do that? When I’m just like selling more units and now I have to order, you know, more units faster. Now, if you’re not in that category, what I would do is you need to have a very focused strategy on organic only. So 30 days prior to Black Friday, cyber Monday, you’re going to increase your bids again, but the day before like, or maybe even two days before leading up to the day after those days, I cut my bids by 30%, and we do this across all the brands, so it’s a significant cut, which essentially means you know if someone is clicking on your ads, you know they’re probably like deep, they’re not like window shopping or anything like that. They’re probably on page three or something like that. And it’s cool because you know people are going to, who are scrolling that much, might be interested in buying. And what I’ve noticed is, even by cutting our ads by 30%, they will probably our PBC spend will probably be more, like 10% more than what it usually is, but as a result we do get an increased amount of sales. It’s not the same as if our bids were high. So we’ll maybe sell 50%, 70%, 100% more than what we usually would sell in a day, but you know we’ll have our ads spend the same and so all of that difference is net profit.

Mina:

And so you know, if your strategy is, if you’re not the seasonal product, black Friday, cyber Monday type of product, you want to cut down by 30%. But if you are, then you’re going to have a deal and you’re going to probably only cut by 10%. Those perform exceptionally well for products like that. So we’ve had giftable products that were 45 and we brought them down to $35. We’ve had coffee makers that were $300 and we brought them down to like 260 or something like that, to 59. And that coffee maker, I think, did $70,000 in one day, wow, yeah, we had a card brand, a card holder, that did like a million dollars between both prime days. So when you have a giftable product, when you have an expensive product, something that people wait for deals to buy, you can make a lot of money and definitely utilize the deals that you know prime day deals or Black Friday, cyber Monday deals.And then one more thing that I didn’t mention for both of those is if you do plan on like showing that you have a lower price 30 to 45 days before Black Friday, cyber Monday or Prime Day, increase your cost, your sale price and let’s say you’re a $30 product, bring it up to 35 and then, right before you can drop your price back to 30 and it will show that you have had the lowest price in the last 30 days. So, on top of like a deal, it’ll show that you have the lowest price, or, if you don’t have a deal, it’ll show that you have the lowest price, which some people might think that it’s a deal. That’s essentially what we’ve been doing. And then another thing to consider is what are the things that you can do to improve your click-through rate during those periods which are going to be your sale price, your main image and your reviews? Those are the top three things that can influence your click-through rate. The higher the click-through rate, the more you’re taking advantage of all that traffic that’s coming in.

Mina:

And so, main image, the time to split test this probably now, because you have about a month until Black Friday, Cyber Monday. You know, with price testing, see how far you can go up right now before actually having a significant impact, because then when you go down you can have a deal and you don’t have to go down as much. If you raise your price by 20% now and you notice that your sales and your profits are pretty much the same, when you do a 20% off in Black Friday, Cyber Monday, you’re going to get all that much more profit because you’re having more sales at the same price. And then, if you’re at a 4.2 stars, do whatever it takes between now and Black Friday, cyber Monday to hit a 4.3, because once you hit the 4.3 and you have 4.5 stars, I’ve seen click-through rates go way up and traffic you know, paid and organic significantly improve. And just a note for everyone, higher click-through rates means lower cost per click, that’s. I mean, I don’t know why that’s the case. My theory is that Amazon views higher click-through rates as better experience for shoppers and, as a result, they want to reward you and allow you to spend more money. So if you’re looking for one way to get more free sales through organic traffic or more sales at a lower cost, through a lower cost per click, work on click-through rate.

Carrie Miller:

So would you say, to do the manage my experiments, to do split testing for those main images, or how do you usually split test?

Mina:

You know, manage my experiments has not been that reliable recently and I updated my main image and I did manage my experiments and I noticed that for one variation it said that the old one is better and then for one variation said the new one is better. So I said you know what? I’m just going to test putting the new one up and I know what my click-through rate has been the last month. Let’s see what’s going to happen the next two weeks. So I added the new image and click-through rate went up by a lot. Oh wow, yeah, I mean, and it was against kind of what manage my experiments said. So I think the ultimate way to split test is just, you know, use something like you guys have a poll feature right, yeah, yeah, audiences. So use Helium 10 audiences, get some preliminary data and then you know, if you feel a little bit more confident and you’re like, okay, cool, like this image is definitely better than my old image, then go ahead and just like test it. Worst case your click-through rate goes down for a couple of weeks. No big deal, you can catch it pretty quick. I would not make any decisions until at least seven days because you need like one full week cycle so you can look at the average of the click-through rates before, average of the click-through rates after and then say, okay, you know, after it’s definitely worse, because for me, Monday the click-through rate could be 0.4. Tuesday could be 0.28. Wednesday could be 0.43. You know what I mean. So that’s how it just fluctuates. No one knows why. It’s human behavior, you know. None of us you know behave in a predictable way Like you know, at least that predictable. So it’s okay, like just let a full week cycle go by.

Carrie Miller:

Do you have some tips Like are there certain things like maybe if you have multiples in a package should you show all of them, or what are some kind of tips you have for those main images that you’ve seen, kind of better performance on the click-through?

Mina:

Yeah, great, great question. So for me, I think what I’ve seen is the sale, the selling points, like the, the USB, the selling point being visible and you showing that you’re better than everyone else just from the main image. And so when I, when I put a bunch of you know like products next to each other, my competitors versus me, like I know that I’m looking for a product, not a lot of people take advantage of the text on their, on their boxes or on their products. So, for example, let’s say you know you’re selling like flip flops, the cloud flip flops, so you can have the flip flops and, and you know, in an angle whatever. Or you can have the flip flops put on top of a box, a fake box, and on that box you have two sides where you can write text and it says, like you know, the softest material on the market or whatever a hundred percent recyclable stuff like that, right, because you can have that text on the box that you couldn’t have actually have on your package, and that box probably doesn’t exist. You know you’re probably shipping it in a, in a clear bag, but no one is going to pay attention to that detail and and you know, at the end of the day, they’re going to get your your slippers. They’re going to look this, you know they’re going to look like slippers.

Mina:

So for me, my, my product, my electrolytes if you go look at it on Amazon, it’s like shinier. There’s text on the cap, there’s like some different logos that show that actually don’t exist on the bottle and when they do get the bottle it looks very, very similar. There’s just a few things, and those few things those are the differences that when someone types in a keyword and they’re looking, you know they’re browsing, I catch their eye because I have, like some elements outside of the product that are eye catching and I have some text on the product that, like they’re looking at all like this is an electrolyte powder, so this is an electrolyte powder with no sugar, with no carbs, and it has this and it’s made in America and it’s all of these things on the label and so they’re like they’re convinced to click on me without having to read like title or anything like that.

Carrie Miller:

Wow, that’s amazing.

Mina:

Yeah, they’re just心 restoring, etc. You have to get creative in that one, and so just think about what your product is and what are some elements that you can add around the product to make it pop. And then you utilize packaging with text to make your main image an infographic instead of a main. You know, like if you could make your main image an infographic? That’s what I’m getting at.

Carrie Miller:

Very interesting. Okay, thank you for sharing that. That’s a really good info. Okay, let’s go on to the next question here. Let’s see, I think you kind of asked well, this is for holiday season, so how should I adjust my PPC budget for the holiday season? So, in general, like you know Q4, there’s more spend. What budget recommendations do you have?

Mina:

Yeah. So again like if, if, if you don’t know historically how much your budget goes up by, what I would do is I would go, I would go into helium 10 and I find the increase in sales you know from my competitors and I would probably budget 50 to 100% like growth in my ad spend based on what I’m seeing. So let’s say my competitor goes from selling 100 units a day to 200 units a day during during that season. Then I’m going to take, you know I’m spending $1,000 a day on ads. I’m going to go to 1500 or max 2000. That’s kind of my range of of increase in ad spend and I’m obviously going to do it slowly and make sure that my revenue is growing, you know more, so that I’m left with net profits. So that’s another point is to make sure that you are tracking your net profits. So net profits is your sale price minus your Amazon fees, minus your cost of goods sold, minus your advertising you know advertising spend and then obviously refunds and reimbursements take that into account and that’s your net profit. You know, on Amazon, excluding, like your own, like cost, you know VA’s, whatever, that kind of stuff. So make sure that you’re measuring that because that’s the, the like, the true number of, like how much you’re taking home. And as that number, you know, is increASINg, you can increase your, your ad spend. And you know, hopefully, because at the end of the day, like I don’t care about selling three times more in Q4. And then you know, my net profits the same.

Mina:

I’d rather sell four times less and have the same net profit because it’s easier on my cash flow. So that’s how I would. I would adjust my budgets Now. If you have historic data and you understand how your sales perform, then you can do it based off of your, your sales growth. Again, if, if you’re like, not your spend growth but your sales growth, so if your sales have historically gone up by 80%, then I’m I’m, you know, going up by 40 to 80% on my ad spend. I’ll start by going up 40% and then notice how much my sales went up, cause if I start going up by 80% and my sales are on the by 60, I’ll scale it back down to 40. Because, again, I want to keep that gap big enough so that I’m making more profit, taking more money home.

Carrie Miller:

That’s a really good point. Yeah, profitability is the most important thing at the end of the day. Yeah, another holiday specific one. What are some strategies for creating holiday specific ad campaigns and promotions?

Mina:

Yeah, so this is. I mean people are not going to like this answer, but every single time I’ve tried to create anything that’s holiday specific has not turned out well. So sponsor products ads work amazing. Every time I start, I try doing a holiday sponsored brand, which is you know the Christmas tree with the products surrounded and you know that kind of stuff like Christmas vibes, I don’t know what it is. My theory is that people on Amazon see that as an ad and they’re like I don’t want to click on an ad but they see sponsor products as like a very like organic thing and they’re like oh, I didn’t even know that it was an ad so. And then I’ve tried it with DSP too, and that one was painful because we have to come up with like 16 different sizes for each creator.

Carrie Miller:

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Mina:

And so we tried a lot of it and it did not outperform regular you know our regular standard ads so I wouldn’t worry too much about you know. Creatives for holidays, okay.

Carrie Miller:

I’ve. We’ve got a lot of questions in here, so I’m going to start pulling up some of these questions from the audience. Um, rick, I hope you said your name right. What is, or what are your rules to stop sponsored campaigns when a keyword does not perform as desired?

Mina:

Okay, so usually, if I’m, if I’m trying to be aggressive and grow, it is about the same price as my product and no sales. So if I have a $30 product, if I spend $30 in no sales, if it’s an auto broad phrase or expanded ASIN, I’m adding it as a negative. If it’s an exact, I’m lowering the bids and I’m going to lower the bids consistently until they either stop spending money or they’re profitable. But more than likely, you know, they’re just going to stop spending money. But I’m just giving it a chance to be on page four and if someone finds it and clicks on it, they’re likely to convert. So that’s, that’s my strategy. If I’m going aggressive, if I’m trying to be conservative, it’ll be 30 to 50% of my sale price. So if I have a $30 product, anywhere between 10 to $15 and spend and no sales, then I’m going to add it as a negative or positive. Now, if you notice that there’s a lot of those and if you notice that you you know you went in and you’re like, okay, cool, $15 and spend in no sales, I’m going to add it as a negative or lower the bids and you do that and you’re left with very little and you feel like you know, like it’s not your sales, your sales are not there. You probably have a conversion rate problem. So your problem is more yes, kill the bleeding. So $15 and spend no sales added as negative. Stop spending money on it.

Mina:

You know you can’t help it, but focus on your. You know, with your current ads being the same, that your TACoS like gets cut in half by you doubling your conversion rate, because then from there you can start removing some of the negatives and retesting them, or just taking the negatives and relaunching them in newer campaigns and seeing if they’re going to be able to get it, and then you’re going to perform Cause. A lot of times it’s like a balance between conversion rate and ad spend. So here at this ad spend, you know, and this conversion rate, I’m fine. Now, like you know, this conversion rate, now I’m not profitable. So when my conversion rate goes up, I can spend a little bit more. Conversion rate goes up, I can spend a little bit more. It’s like a balancing app.

Carrie Miller:

That’s a really good point. You know that. You know you got to look at your listing too. Is it the most optimized, or your images the best they could be? I mean even just your main image, the way you were talking about. You know adding those different things on the packaging, that’s um. You know little touches that make a huge difference. So that is really good. You know not all. You know you can negative the keywords, but then you know they might not be bad forever. So it’s really good. Mr techie says, PPC strategy help required. Selling a product in Indian market and then I launched it in the US Market. Have 60 plus feedbacks. My ACoS is 150%. I was running exact match, but conversion rate is negative 7%.

Mina:

So not sure what the question is, but yeah, yeah, can you, can you clarify the question? And then I mean, if your conversion rate is 7%, I mean ACoS really doesn’t matter to me Tell me what your TACoS is. That’s like maybe gonna be a little bit more indicative. Tell me what your, you know your margin is and what your TACoS is and what your conversion rate is like overall on the listing and I can maybe help you a little bit better. But I mean, if you’re, if you just launched, it’s more than likely your conversion rate is low. Having 60 plus Feedbacks or reviews, I’m assuming, is not enough. Also, running exact match alone isn’t great. You can run broad phrase and exact and auto and expanded ASIN and whatever is working. You know you can keep that and whatever is not working you can pause it or add it as a negative.

Mina:

And the goal is to you know, across all the different Add types that you have match types and all that kind of stuff, to find just a bunch of winning keywords. You start off, let’s say, with a hundred dollars a day in budget and you know you launch a hundred dollars a day worth of ads and maybe ten dollars of those ads are profitable. So the other 90 you’re gonna kill and then launch a new 90, and out of that 90 there’s 10, and so now you have 20, that’s working, 80. That’s not working, you know. Kill that 80, launch another new 80, now you have maybe 30, and you know, and so on, and so you’re just trying to stack up like More keywords that are profitable and they’re working, and then kill the ones that you tested but didn’t work out, and again, all of them will work better if your conversion rate is higher.

Carrie Miller:

Yeah, that’s a good point. I think he said something else a little bit. I’ve already spent over 3,000. My sales are around 1800 through profitability, though Profitability is very low. So I think you kind of gave some good advice there. So so let’s see. Bradley has a question. He says are you 100% of the time doing custom images for sponsored brand ads and if so, what kind of images are working well?

Mina:

Okay. So the one, the one image that I’ve seen perform really well and yes, I am doing custom images for sponsored brand 100% of the time the one image that I’m seeing work really, really well is Like something like social proof. So people that are on Shark Tank, people that you know, were like featured on, like there was a creative one where it was like the product and then like put on the cover of Forbes, you know, like with a magazine of Forbes, like next to it. We’ve seen like stuff done with an influencer, like really big influencers Hillary, dove, Halle Berry, you know who are like celebrities. So social proof is what I’ve seen Works incredibly well and you have to do it in a way where, like it’s, there’s no like text, so you can’t just do like a bunch of like logos and stuff like that. I don’t think they’re gonna allow that, but that is what I’ve seen works best. Everything else has worked kind of Okay, you know, like similar sponsor brands in general and you know I hate to say this, but sponsor brands in general, they seem to not perform that well. They seem to just spend more money and not generate sales. So I’m a hundred percent an advocate for sponsor brands for your own branded search terms. But the second that I start going into like sponsor brand for other keywords. What I notice is it’s like the people are clicking on sponsor brand and sponsor products, spending money and not and it’s not generating any more sales. And we’ve tried it where our organic and sponsored is low. So there’s. You know there’s no chance they’re coming into our listing and we try and run a sponsored brand and They’ve. They’ve done Okay, they haven’t done great.

Carrie Miller:

That’s interesting. Okay, the next question how you mentioned in one of your videos that you use same keyword in multiple campaigns, does not, does that not cannibalize the keyword?

Mina:

Yeah, so the only time I’m using the same keyword in multiple campaigns if they’re if the match types are different and it does not cannibalize, and I’ll explain why. So when you have a keyword in broad, that keyword triggers 50 different searches, 50 different search terms, right, if it’s in phrase, it triggers 20 and if it’s an exact it triggers one, and then these are, just, like you know, rough numbers. So it let’s say that you know you have the same keyword in broad phrase and exact, this keyword in broad is gonna show one of 50 times. Now, if you have a hundred dollars a day budget in that campaign and a one dollar cost per click, that that means that it’s gonna show across those 50 keywords twice per keyword. You know you’re gonna. It’s gonna, you know, be two times per keyword in 24 hours. And then you know for for the, the like phrase, it’s gonna be five times per keyword and then for the exact, it’s gonna be whatever, however many times, you know a hundred times for that keyword. That’s, if you reach a hundred dollars, they and spend, and so you add that up, right, two times, five times. You know, and let’s say, 20 times in 24 hours. They’re not gonna compete with each other like there’s there’s so much time in the day. An ad could be showing up, you know, every minute. So it’s like there is. They’re usually in different match types, not gonna compete, and if they do happen to show in different times, from my understanding the the one that has the highest bid is the one that’s gonna show up. So it’s not a big deal. I don’t think they compete. I just think like, statistically, you have something that shows up twice in 24 hours, five times in 24 hours, 20 times in 24 hours. What is the chance of them running into each other?

Carrie Miller:

Yeah, that’s true. Okay, so Jeffrey asked what’s the minimum amount of Spend needed and the minimum time frame you recommend for running DSP? That’s a really good question. I’ve had this question a lot recently.

Mina:

Yeah. So I would say 2000 a month is would be the bare minimum and that’s just kind of enough to cover like some loyalty or retargeting campaigns. And the minimum like in the first 30 days, that’s when you’re still getting data, and then in the second 30 days, that’s when you’re starting to optimize. So within 60 days you should start seeing like the true results. So I would say the minimum at spend would be 2000 and then the minimum you know amount of time should be 60 days, and then 60 days that’s if you’re like running it with someone, that’s like experienced and they know what they’re doing. If you’re doing it yourself, it’s probably it’s gonna be longer. You know more, like 120 days because there’s a lot of things that you have to tweak to get it Right. But yeah, I mean it doesn’t have to be a lot of ad spend. I think you can get retargeting down with 2000. You just have to figure out which Placements work the best. So for me it’s been usually Amazoncom, desktop, mobile web and mobile app. Creatives has been responsive, e-commerce has performed the best, and then audiences are Like sometimes 30 days is enough, 30 days retargeting. Sometimes you have to go with like 60 days retargeting. So it just depends on how many people are coming into your listing. For an audience to be created on DSP, you need at least a thousand Unique visitors a month to create an audience awesome.

Carrie Miller:

Okay, the next one is how are you using the bidding strategy for supplements and are you getting good results?

Mina:

First for supplements, the way that, like I work, from long to long, tail up, like from from long, like long term, like um, low, low search volume, all the way up because lower search volume are easier to win. And so my strategy is, you know, going to helium 10, I put in my, or I go into, like you know, the search results on on Amazon type in my main keyword, open up X-ray. I pull up the top 10 competitors, launch them in cerebro. Then I set up some settings, so I would say like a minimum of 500 searches a month, minimum ranking competitors seven or eight out of the 10. Um, and then maximum position, 60. Um, and so now it’s showing me keywords that are relevant to most of these competitors with decent search volume and they’re not ranked a super low. And then from there I have my core list and I take that core list and I start launching.

Mina:

I launched the big ones initially just to get relevancy and to get a lot of indexing for for a lot of different keywords. I’ll watch this broad phrase and exact, but I start with the lower search volume keywords and I put them five in a campaign, one in broad, one in phrase, one in exact, and I’m gradually launching them and I start with a bid that’s lower or around the suggested bid. Sometimes the suggested bid is $5. So I’ll just start at you know, a dollar or $2. Anyways, and then I can always inch my way up, and so from there I wait and I, you know, I spend and I see what’s going on. And then I start inching data up based on like, what’s getting um, impressions, um, and obviously, if there’s anything that’s performing well, I’m spending a little bit more money on it. And I’m basically trying to start like I’m casting a net at the bottom and then coming up, up, up, up, up, until it starts like catching some people and instead of like spending up here, and then I’m like, damn, like this, spending too much money, it’s not profitable, and lowering the bids.

Mina:

I started the bottom and work my way up and then, as I stack the, the long tail ones, it’s easier to launch the bigger ones Because they’re going to be more costly, but they’ll balance out because they they will drive a lot of traffic, but you should have like a decent amount of sales that are profitable coming in first and then then it will work a lot better than if you just start with the broad keywords Um and yeah, and that gets me pretty good results. We’re like looking for negative keywords very frequently, making sure that any keyword that spends a certain amount of money with no sales, is added as negative, like if it’s an auto broad phrase or expanded ASIN, um, and then all any keyword that’s like underperforming bids are lowered. And we’re constantly launching new keywords and testing new keywords out. So, going through the search term report, um, you know, twice a week identifying any search term that converted profitably that we’re not currently running. I’m not negating it or anything, I’m just taking it out, putting it in its own campaign in different match types to try and double down on those keywords.

Carrie Miller:

Awesome, all right. Next question Are Google ads still effective?

Mina:

Yeah, I would say Google ads are still effective. Definitely. I think you’re trying to drive cold Google ads to Amazon because you have a lack of attribution. It’s very hard to optimize. I wouldn’t necessarily put my money there before maximizing uh, PPC and DSP.

Carrie Miller:

Can you elaborate a little bit more on this strategy for a rank? Do you have to put in specific keywords on your Google ads in order to rank on Amazon for those, or does it just sending Google traffic allow all your keywords to increase an organic rank, Like what? What is the strategy for that?

Mina:

The strategy is individual keywords. So it’s like we’ll set up a keyword, uh, in its own campaign and we’ll drive traffic to Amazon and we’re noticing that the rank of that keyword for us organically goes up and we’re tracking it in the search query performance report, um, in terms of like all of everything ranking higher. That works well when we’re using influencers. So we’ve done a strategy where we’ve hit up a bunch of influencers, like I’m actually going to do this for my new product that I’m launching, um on Amazon. It’s like a new, it’s like a packets version of my electrolytes, but basically I’m giving it away to a hundred different influencers and what we’ve seen is like brands that have done that that they’ve given it away to influencers on Tik Tok and they’ve like posted about it and made good content. And then people are like looking up the brand name and looking at it on Amazon, like that’s really helped improve organic rank across the board.

Carrie Miller:

That’s amazing, thank you, okay, so what’s the best way to choose initial bids?

Mina:

Yeah, so start with suggested bid, you know, and if the suggested bits too high, just start lower and then work your way up. There’s like no science behind this. Um, you’re never going to nail it. You’re just going to start somewhere and then you’re going to have to optimize it. You’re going to have to optimize over time until you hit the you know, the sweet spot. But I would rather you start lower and work your way up, because if you start higher you’re just spending a lot more money faster.

Carrie Miller:

All right. Next one should broad and phrase match be used in campaigns throughout the product lifetime? I think is what that is.

Mina:

Product. Okay, so should broad and phrase match type? Yeah, broad and phrase match types should be used forever. They’re like different types of keywords. So you have one keyword and you have different match types and those different match types perform differently. So you know, it’s like. That’s just how it is. Like you can have a electrolyte powder broad, electrolyte powder exact and electrolyte powder broad could do amazing, because inside of electrolyte powder broad there’s 40 keywords. You’ve negative 10 of them that are not doing well, and then there’s 30 of them that are doing good, you know. And then electrolyte powder exact is just that one keyword and you know you’ve optimized the bid as much as you can and it’s doing okay, but you know it’s spending too much money and not an ecosystem is high, etc. Etc. So you should always use phrase and broad. Yeah.

Carrie Miller:

Awesome. Okay, and we have some continuation from the one earlier who had 150% ACoS negative 7% conversion rate. He said TACoS are 125%. Current sales two orders a day. Category gift bags. I need PPC strategy for the current situation in helium 10. I see my rank is poor for major keywords. I am tracking.

Mina:

Yeah, I mean this is. It looks like to me it’s more likely a conversion rate problem. When I see TACoS that high, I mean it’s not going to be your, because if your TACoS is that high, then great like, pause all your keywords and only keep the ones that are profitable. And if there’s like, if the ones that are profitable aren’t even making you two sales a day, then yeah, I mean you have a conversion problem. So it because if you fix your conversion rate, then your 125 TACoS could become 50% TACoS and then you’ll have more opportunity to get you know, launch more keywords and some of them be more profitable, which will drop your TACoS even further. But it seems, as of right now you’re, it’s probably a conversion rate problem.

Carrie Miller:

Yeah.

Mina:

Sorry, let me just say okay, while you fix your conversion rate, what should you do for PPC? I would say go after a bunch of long tail keywords, start with a very low bid and work your way up slowly and try and catch some profitable keywords. That’s, that’s all you can do. There’s not much else that you can do, right? It’s because then, the day you’re launching different keywords, you’re testing different keywords, some of them need to convert and it’s, you know, it’s up to your conversion rate.

Carrie Miller:

Awesome. I think that’s actually the last of the questions here, so and we’re about, you know, almost at 40 minutes, so we’ve definitely had a pretty good episode here. So thank you so much for joining us on this live. We really appreciate you coming and giving all this expert advice. I think you just dropped so much information here, so many good tactics that people can start taking into, especially these holiday season times, to help, you know, maybe not overspend and to be more profitable. So thank you so much again for joining and we’ll see you again, hopefully another time on TACoS Tuesday, and we’ll see you again.

Mina:

See you later, see you soon, thanks guys.

Carrie Miller:

Bye everyone.


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