#759 – Amazon Exit Turned Into a $600K Nightmare

What happens when a multimillion-dollar Amazon exit is followed by a financial disaster that wipes out more than half a million dollars? In this episode, Bradley Sutton reconnects with longtime Amazon seller Mitul Patel, the person who first introduced Bradley to Helium 10 nearly nine years ago. Mitul shares how he went from working as a computer programmer to building Run Forever Sports, growing it to $2.5 million in annual sales, and eventually selling the business in 2020.

But after his successful exit, Mitul entered the sports card business and trusted the wrong supplier with a massive order. What appeared to be a legitimate operation was actually a Ponzi-style scheme, leaving Mitul with losses between $550,000 and $600,000. Rather than declare bankruptcy and leave his customers unpaid, he sold investments, liquidated much of his collection, borrowed money from his father, and leaned on his reputation within the card community to make things right. His experience delivers a powerful reminder that trust must be supported by proper safeguards, and that your word can become one of your most valuable business assets.

Mitul also explains how he rebuilt his career at Navira while creating a new business around his passion for sports cards. Unlike his first Amazon brand, which was built by identifying high demand, his newer products began with problems he personally experienced inside the hobby. Growth has been slower, but the brand has developed stronger loyalty and a more durable foundation. Mitul also shares strategies from managing approximately 45 brands, including using Meta and TikTok to build off-Amazon awareness, studying customer reviews to uncover product advantages, and increasing one product’s sales by 40% after highlighting its leakproof design in the main image.

Mitul’s story proves that success is not defined only by the size of an exit or the speed of a brand’s growth. It is also defined by how you respond when everything goes wrong. Through integrity, community, disciplined rebuilding, and a willingness to keep learning, he transformed a devastating setback into a new beginning. No matter how difficult the loss, your reputation, experience, and resilience can give you the foundation to rise again—and build something even stronger than before.

In episode 759 of the Serious Sellers Podcast, Bradley and Mitul discuss:

• 00:00 – Introduction
• 01:57 – Mitul’s First Failed Amazon Product Launch
• 02:26 – Building A $2.5 Million Amazon Brand
• 04:17 – Life After Selling His Amazon Business
• 06:00 – The $600,000 Sports Card Ponzi Scheme
• 08:02 – Why Mitul Repaid His Customer
• 10:38 – Rebuilding His Career After Losing Everything
• 13:21 – Turning A Passion Into New Products
• 17:53 – Demand-First Products Versus Passion-Driven Brands
• 22:43 – Why Cerebro Remains His Favorite Tool
• 24:46 – Competing Through Off-Amazon Brand Awareness
• 28:14 – One Main Image Increased Sales 40%

Transcript

Bradley Sutton:

Today, I flew to the Chicago airport to record this podcast with our guest, who is going to talk about his multi-million dollar exit on Amazon, but then how he lost over half a million dollars in a baseball card Ponzi scheme. Oh, and by the way, he’s the person who first introduced me to Helium 10 nine years ago. How cool is that? Pretty cool, I think. Hello, everybody, and welcome to another episode of the Series Seller’s Podcast by Helium 10. I’m your host, Bradley Sutton, and this is the show that’s a completely BS-free, organic conversation about serious strategies for serious sellers of any level in the e-commerce world.

Bradley Sutton:

All right. And now I am here in Chicago, just landed, was stuck on the plane for 40 minutes, went to the wrong terminal, but Mitul here found me. I came here because this is where Mitul’s at. He’s been on the podcast before, and I think it was like 2021 actually was the last time you were on the podcast. 2021, 2022, maybe towards the end of COVID there. But I pretty much forgot everything we talked about. We have so many new listeners too. I want to pretend like this is the first time you’re on the podcast here. So we are here in Chicago, Illinois at the Chicago airport. Is this area where you were born and raised?

Mitul:

Yes. Yeah, I was born in Chicago in the city. I grew up in the suburbs and I still live here.

Bradley Sutton:

Where did you go to school at for university?

Mitul:

Northern Illinois University.

Bradley Sutton:

What was your major over there?

Mitul:

Computer science.

Bradley Sutton:

Computer science. And did you get into that after graduation?

Mitul:

I did. I was a programmer for 10 years. I worked at a corporate job before Amazon. And yeah.

Bradley Sutton:

Okay. And what brought you or what put you on the radar for e-commerce?

Mitul:

So a friend of mine actually followed Ryan Moran and he got into Amazon. And so I was just following his journey. And then he was really successful. I think he launched Yacon syrup, if you remember that. And so I was like, you got to show me what you’re doing. And so he helped me get going. I started in supplements, phytoceramides and failed miserably. About what year are we talking about now? This is 2014.

Bradley Sutton:

2014. Okay.

Mitul:

So 2014, I started, launched my brand, thought I was going to become a millionaire, investing $1,000. Learned the hard way that that’s not how it works, even back then. And failed miserably, but I learned a lot. That’s when I learned about Ezra Firestone. Learned about Facebook marketing, landing pages, Amazon, Amazon BBC, everything. And so I pivoted at the end of the year. I launched a new brand, Run Forever Sports, in January of 2015, and kind of applied everything I learned to it. And it took off. And I built that over five years.

Bradley Sutton:

Was that like, maybe I’m completely confusing you, but did you have like a sock brand or something like that?

Mitul:

Yeah. Compression socks, compression socks, calf sleeves, plantar fasciitis sleeves, elbow, all that kind of stuff.

Bradley Sutton:

And what was your, for those brands, the ones that you started in the mid 2010s, what was your best year of gross sales and approximately how much was it?

Mitul:

$2.5 million. And that’s when I sold.

Bradley Sutton:

So you exited that brand?

Mitul:

Yeah. In 2020.

Bradley Sutton:

And that was maybe around the time, maybe we did the podcast a year later or something. So you’re in a transitional period. But now in the last six years, you’ve gone through a lot. Some highs, but a lot of lows. And so I remember bits and pieces. We were in a Facebook messenger group about sports cards, which we can talk about too. But you were talking about some crazy legal issues. And it sounded like you were about to get the mafia involved. I don’t know what the heck was going on. So can you tell me what in the world happened after 2020, you exited the brand, and somehow you lost a lot of money, if I’m not mistaken?

Mitul:

Yeah. All right. So I exited the brand. I sold to D1 Brands. They were an aggregator at the time. I actually went and worked for them. I worked for them for about five months, got an inside scoop on the aggregator world. And then in May of 2022, we parted ways.

Bradley Sutton:

Were you working for them on your brand or just on their portfolio of stuff?

Mitul:

Oh, so yeah. So I was an associate director. I had four brands. Mine was not one of them, thankfully. I wouldn’t have done it. And so then after I left, so I was in the hobby. Obviously, you know, we’ve talked a lot about sports cards and things like that. And so that started back in 2019. And during that time, I would do things where we would buy cases of product, and we’d hold it, and then we’d sell it later. And I was just doing it here and there, and I was always got a good return. And so after that, and I built up a pretty good network in the sports card world. And so after I left, I was like, oh, you know, maybe I could become a dealer.

Mitul:

And so basically buying cases of product and then holding it and selling it to breakers, people who basically open it up on Facebook. Now it’s like Whatnot and TikTok. And I mean, everyone, you could break anywhere nowadays. And so got hooked up with the wrong person, did my due diligence. He had lots of references. There were a lot of people who were buying from him. And so I started working with him and everything was great.

Bradley Sutton:

What were you doing exactly with him?

Mitul:

Yeah, so I was buying product from him. So he was able to get a product, which he claimed was from his card shop, which was false, obviously, now that I know that. But he was able to get it, we were able to buy it.And it wasn’t even like a too good to be true type of thing. It wasn’t like he was selling us something that’s $10,000 for $5,000. It was just that he had availability, we were able to get it.

Mitul:

And the prices were going up so fast that you could hold it for two, three, four weeks, and you’d still make a good return. And so started buying from him, getting product, it was working, I started buying more, more, more. And then I had a big customer who placed a huge order to the tune of like half a million dollars, and placed that order with him, sent him money, which was stupid. I should have known better. But again, he gave me no reason to not trust him. It wasn’t like we were doing $500 deals, and then I had this.

Mitul:

We were doing $50,000, $60,000 deals. So it wasn’t abnormal. But long story short, it was kind of a Ponzi scheme. He was kind of robbing Peter to pay Paul. And he actually ended up gambling all of it away on whatnot. How do you gamble it away on whatnot? So he was buying into breaks, and not hitting anything good. And what he was doing was also all the stuff that he would hit, he would sell to try. And I think he got caught up in it, and was just trying to get that one win, which could pay back everyone, but just didn’t happen.

Mitul:

And I wasn’t the only one. It was a total of about a million dollars across five, six, seven, eight people, something like that. I was the biggest. I was around $550,000 to $600,000.

Bradley Sutton:

So then you were on the hook to your customer for that half a million. And what happened there? Did you have to come up? Did you have that much money, extra money to cover? Or what happened?

Mitul:

Yeah. So this is one of those things where I look back, and I try and think through. Because it was done through the business, I could have easily claimed bankruptcy, and be like, ah, you’re screwed. But in the hobby, your word is king. And so I would have basically been done. And I just figured, I gave him my word. I was like, look, I got you. You’re trusting me with this. And so I ended up cashing out investments, selling a lot of my collection to pay him back.

Mitul:

I actually ended up getting a loan from my dad as well to help with that, and some help from the hobby community as well. There’s one guy who really, really, really helped me out when you didn’t have to at all. And he did. And it was basically because of my reputation. So this is where it’s really important that your word is your bond. If you’re going to give your word on something, follow through.

Bradley Sutton:

And did you end up getting anything back from the guy who stole?

Mitul:

So another wisdom that I’ve learned is if you’re going to lose money to someone, make sure they have money. And they have assets, so you can actually get something back. He had none. I was able to get his wife on about $30,000. So we were able to get that back slowly over three years through garnishing her wages. He doesn’t have a job, so I currently cannot garnish anything. I do get his tax returns. And so that’s basically about it.

Bradley Sutton:

Yeah. So you might be thinking, why are we talking about this? Sports cards, 99% of you might not get into that. But the same principle applies. Even thinking about dealing with a supplier, maybe that you haven’t met and that you’ve done a lot of transactions that were around $40,000. If you’re doing transactions that work out great at $40,000 or $50,000, of course, you’re going to have trust in somebody like, Oh, yeah, this is legit.

Bradley Sutton:

But don’t make such a big jump to something else without doing some more due diligence or covering your bases. It doesn’t matter if we’re talking sports cards, we’re talking dealing with Alibaba suppliers, or we’re talking about a creditor, whatever the case is, you don’t want to find out the hard way that things can happen. So then this obviously put a big dent in your whole exit and maybe your retirement plans and stuff.

Bradley Sutton:

So then what did you start doing for gainful employment? Did you just find another supplier for cards? Or did you get back on Amazon? You worked for another company? What happened?

Mitul:

Yeah. So I was still getting paid from my exit. So that’s kept me afloat. So basically, I got to the point where I had no savings. At that time, I was getting paid from a note that I still held. It was a three-year note. So I still had a year and a half to skate by. And so in October of that year, they basically messaged me and said, Hey, we can’t pay you anymore because of Q4. So their claim was it was because of Q4, they have to buy inventory.I was like, Oh, crap. Now I made nothing. So that was when I was like, Well, I got to find a job.

Bradley Sutton:

And I started interviewing. I had to update my resume, which I hadn’t done in 15 years. And got on Indeed, started applying to all kinds of jobs. And I actually eventually ended up getting one with the company that I’m currently with now, Navira. They were global eCom partners at the time. We’re like a pattern where we partner with brands, we buy their inventory, and then we manage their Amazon and eCommerce platforms. So Target, Walmart.

Bradley Sutton:

So you buy the inventory and you sell it on your accounts, you’re not running their accounts for them.

Mitul:

Right. We do have an agency set up, but I call it wholesale distribution is more the main part of our business. So I got a job with them. Thankfully, everything with D1 worked out. They paid me what they owed me. I still own about 16% of the business, which I sold back to them. And so I got paid out for all that, thankfully. I was able to pay my dad back, put some money in the bank for savings. And then that started my journey with Navira.

Mitul:

And at the same time… So before that, I still loved the hobby. I had a lot of friends there. Obviously, you know that. I had a big collection still. And so I didn’t want it to ruin my experience. And so I started thinking of what I could do to come back, I guess, build back. I don’t know. And so I kind of had this idea and started developing some products. And it was not high demand. If you went on Amazon at the time, you’d be like, oh, this is nothing. But I saw the potential because I was in the hobby. It was something that I knew very well, but not…

Bradley Sutton:

Something you saw that you could improve on, that the current industry was a little bit lacking what was selling. And you thought, hey, I can come in with a better product.

Mitul:

Yeah, right. Exactly. And so I started doing that slowly. I did launch on Amazon. And it was funny because when you launch on Amazon, you need time and you need focus. And because of my job, I didn’t really have that. And plus, all the other stuff going on. And so it never got to a point where it was anything big. I also had another brand, a compression sock brand that I had from previous that I purchased that was off Amazon.

Mitul:

And I ended up not really doing much there. It kind of just runs on autopilot on Shopify. And so I started doing card shows, selling cards, selling supplies, things like that, just on the side to help with the recovery, I guess you could say. And then built up a pretty good network. When you’re out, it’s funny because obviously, I did the Amazon thing where I sat behind a computer. My network consisted of other Amazon sellers that you meet virtually.

Mitul:

You and I have known each other for 10 plus years now. And we’ve met twice in person. And then I go into this where I see them monthly. And so you start building these connections and these networks. And a lot of them are card shops. And so then they’re like, hey, can you do this? And can you do that? And you’re like, yeah, sure, I can do that. It’s easy. For us who are on Amazon, get a supplier in China. Sure. So I’ve slowly built that up.

Mitul:

It’s nothing major, nothing huge. I’ve actually spent a lot of time focused on my career, and making sure I do a good job there. Again, it’s your word, your ethics. I don’t know what you want to call it. But from that degree, because I’m also a big believer in Christ. And so you don’t want to steal time from people and stuff like that. So a lot of my focus has gone to my job. And this is the side thing I do on the weekends and at night. And so it’s funny, because when you contacted me, I actually started relooking at Amazon. Because I felt like… I know Amazon. And we do a lot.

Mitul:

We learn a lot, because we manage 45 brands. And a lot of them are off Amazon. So you see a lot of unique things, because you come from the world of like, oh, PPC, and I have to do this. And then you go to this world where they’re running Facebook ads, and they’re in retail stores. And they have actual big brands with a lot of brand equity. And it’s just different. And so I felt… I was wondering if some of my Amazon skills got a little weaker. And so I actually just hired GNO to help.

Mitul:

Because I’ve got… There’s people, obviously, in MDS, there’s people who know them. But a good friend of mine started using them. And I was talking to him. And I was like, all right, well, let me try. Let me see what they know. And so I started working with them. And I’ve just learned that they’ve got great processes.

Mitul:

And they haven’t taught me anything that I don’t know. It’s just that they have a process behind it. And it’s like, all right, I should do that. And so now I’ve started learning again, how to build a brand on Amazon.

Bradley Sutton:

Talk a little bit about that. Because I think this is very different than your first go around. I would assume you didn’t have some big passion about compression socks or something. You probably saw some indicators that there’s demand and this is a good niche to get into. Which is what some people call the traditional way of starting on Amazon. And maybe not so much anymore, but especially back in the day.

Bradley Sutton:

So contrast that, where you start with the demand and then you’re like, I don’t know much about this. And now I’m going to launch this product, compared to now going almost with a passion product, where maybe all the indicators weren’t there. And actually, if I’m not mistaken, a lot of your business or just like you’re saying, card shows and stuff like that is actually off Amazon. Contrast the two experiences of starting the brand and pros and cons and what have you liked better?

Mitul:

Yeah. So you’re right. When I started Run Forever, I was searching on Amazon. I looked for something that sort of interested me. It wasn’t like a pad, don’t wear compression. I don’t run. That’s the last thing I want to do on my list. Run forever, except not me. Yes. Run never. That’s what I should have called it. And you’re right. It was very different. I went on Amazon. I saw demand. I saw opportunity. I was like, oh, yeah. And then I actually did some research. I went to retail stores.

Mitul:

I tried to bought products to try to see what people didn’t like. And then went to Alibaba and ordered it and sent it to Amazon and did all the things that you do, right? Like the reviews and viral launch and Zonblast. And again, those things don’t exist anymore. But get 1000 reviews as fast as you can. Run PPC. And it took off. And now it’s like, I looked at a product that I was like, hey, it’s in the hobby. I need it for myself.

Mitul:

And I’m like, nobody makes it. So then I made it. And I figured other people would want it, too, because it makes sense. And so starting that and it was more like you order a couple and then you sell it and you order a little bit more and then you try it on Amazon. And it was a lot slower. The trajectory of Run Forever was like, I think my first year I did $750,000.

Mitul:

With my new brand, I think the first year I probably did like $10,000. And then the second year I did like $20,000. So it was like the trajectory is very, very different. And even the work behind it, it’s like I felt like now I put more work into it from a time perspective for less results. And with Run Forever, kind of Amazon did all the heavy lifting, really. But the difference is with this one, even though the trajectory is slower, I feel like the foundation is 10 times better.

Mitul:

I go back and I look at Run Forever now and prices, they’re like down to like $5, $6 a unit. The brand itself is probably not really, has no loyalty. It’s not really getting anything. It’s just kind of there on Amazon and people buy it because it ranks well and has lots of reviews. Whereas people buy my stuff now because they love the brand and there’s loyalty. And there was some place I heard where to make a brand successful, you only need like 1,000 people who just love it, diehard fans.

Mitul:

And that’s your, then you’re set. And so I feel like Run Forever may have had a couple. Current brands got hopefully about, probably not 1,000, but get closer every day. So I think that’s really the biggest difference is sometimes it’s like, what are you looking at? Are you looking at short-term or long-term? Plus the learnings. You learn more when you’re out in the world and you’re doing it and you’re seeing other people who are also injecting wisdom into you. Because a lot of times people are like, hey, can you do this? And I was like, oh yeah, I don’t know.

Mitul:

There’s a product idea. Whereas with Run Forever, I kind of just had to Google Amazon and be like, what’s going on here? What are my competitors doing? So I felt like with Run Forever, I was always behind. Whereas now I feel more innovative.

Bradley Sutton:

All right. I want to talk a little bit of strategy that you’re doing at your current company. But before there, let’s just talk about your history with Helium 10. For those who didn’t hear the last episode, I mean, Mitul’s been using Helium 10 longer than me, and actually played a role in me discovering Helium 10. He mentioned this Zonblast. It was a company, but then there was this Zon Squad community that we were in.

Bradley Sutton:

It was kind of like Helium 10 Elite, like the Illuminati mastermind where people would pay a lot of money. And we had the private Facebook group. And I remember I used to use this keyword tracker that was just absolute garbage. It was pretty good. Then it became absolute garbage. And I remember putting a post.

Bradley Sutton:

I was like, hey guys, I need a new keyword tracker. Anybody have any recommendations? And he replied, hey, have you tried Helium 10? And I was like, I never even heard of Helium 10. And then guys, that was the rest is history, as they say. So he might need to get a percentage of my paychecks. I think that might have helped. It wouldn’t have helped pay his half a million, because I don’t make as much money as people think I do. But what has been over the years your favorite use cases for Helium 10 where you feel that you got the most value out of?

Mitul:

Cerebro. Really, for me, it’s been that, just being able to pull keywords by an ASIN level, because there’s nothing else on the market that does it. There’s a lot of things that pull SQP data, which is great. But there’s times where there’s those longer, long, long, long tail keywords that you just can’t, you don’t know. And then on top of that, you’re able to pull competitors and see where they’re at. There are times where I’m like, man, where are they ranking? What are they doing? And I’ll discover keywords. I’m like, I didn’t even think about that. And so that’s the biggest thing for me.

Bradley Sutton:

And then being able to take that time machine for the Cerebro back, like, all right, here, great. This is what they’re doing now. Maybe a couple of tools out there might do that. But then, hey, we’ve got what’s coming up here. Thanksgiving is coming up for this Thanksgiving gift basket. If you were to try and do research on that now, even the regular Cerebro, you’re not going to find much, because the Thanksgiving gift baskets aren’t even for sale right now.

Bradley Sutton:

But hey, in Cerebro, you can actually say, hey, what was happening in, when is Thanksgiving, November? What was happening in November of 2025 and 2024 and see what keywords. And so, yeah, like Cerebro was how I fell in love with Helium 10 after the keyword tracker, of course, for sure too.

Bradley Sutton:

Now, thinking about your current business model where you guys are buying inventory and then running on your own account. So first of all, you’ve got all the fees and the margins and stuff that a regular brand would have, who’s a private label. But then I’m thinking, for sure, you guys aren’t doing price wars, because you had to purchase this inventory from somebody else who had to have enough margin to even sell to you.

Bradley Sutton:

And so the fact that you guys can do this at scale, to me, shows you might have some unique strategies, because there’s people who don’t even have that middleman kind of thing and still are struggling to make profits. So what has allowed you guys to be able to still make money in this 2026 world where everybody says, oh man, I can’t afford to sell on Amazon, they’re taking all my money?

Mitul:

Yeah. So we have to be very efficient and we have to think outside the box. So there’s a lot of tools that we have that we’re forced. We struggle and we get stressed and we have to learn. It’s just natural. We deal with a lot of Chinese competitors and a lot of times we lose because we are higher priced. We can’t do the thing where we get close to them. For example, we sell a $700 juicer and you can get a $100 juicer on Amazon. So it’s like, how do you fight that? What’s the answer? So one is lots of advertising off of Amazon. No, but there is. There’s that. Off Amazon advertising is huge. I will die on a cliff. If you’re not doing off Amazon marketing…

Bradley Sutton:

Well, what’s the best ones to do?

Mitul:

So for what I see, obviously, Meta and TikTok. Those are the 2… They cause your brand to go bonkers.

Bradley Sutton:

When you say TikTok, do you mean TikTok advertising or doing the TikTok influencer thing where you try and get some product out and have creators make videos?

Mitul:

So I’ve seen multiple ways. So I think there’s a couple of ways you can be successful on TikTok. One is TikTok Live.

Actually, we just ran into a competitor and we’re looking… We’re trying to figure out how are they selling so much. All they do is TikTok Lives. Then there’s the people who… They go and get the creators, the people who are doing that and they run ads on it. And then there’s others who are just their founder videos.

Mitul:

It’s only on their account. So I think that’s the cool thing about TikTok is you can fit it to your personality. If you’re the type of person who likes to be in front of a camera and you can do it, you can be successful. Or if you’re the type who likes, not, doesn’t like me and want other people to do it, you can still be successful. So I think that’s the kind of cool thing about TikTok. And I did read recently, you have to also think of TikTok as just a marketing channel, not a profit center, or at least if you’re thinking about TikTok shop.

Mitul:

But that overflow is huge. And so we have some brands who do well on TikTok. A lot of them are meta Instagram advertising. There are some that are heavy in retail. And so that helps. And then the ones… Some of them do like QVC, HSN. Those are massive.

Bradley Sutton:

Just like when something goes live there, then you see that halo effect on your Amazon. It’s huge.

Mitul:

And I think it’s basically just who knows your brand and how much visibility do you get? And I do this myself. Now, if I’m buying things on Amazon, I bought a phone charger. There’s so many Chinese brands out there. And I’m like, I don’t trust any of them. And then I see Anchor, which… And I’m like, Oh yeah. Okay. So now all my stuff is Anchor. And it’s not because they are different from the other ones. There’s just trust. And so I think the more visibility you have on your brand, the more trust you build. And that helps a lot. The other things we do is we double down on optimization. Main image optimization. We had one product where we finally cracked the code and sales increased 40%.

Bradley Sutton:

By changing the main image.

Mitul:

Yeah.

Bradley Sutton:

What did you do to the main? Did you start experimenting using like PickFu or something like that? And then found something that really worked? Or did you have a formula that you…

Mitul:

Yes. You can use PickFu. I think there’s a couple other ones that do it too. And what we would do is we would try and just learn what resonated with customers. And then we would test it. And we just keep changing it. And we were like, literally, we just stare at the listing for hours and be like, what are people looking for? And then you look at the reviews. And eventually, it kind of popped out. It was like leak proof. So it’s a product that you travel with in planes and stuff. And you put perfume into it.

Mitul:

And one of the things people complained about with the Chinese competitors was that it leaked. And ours didn’t. And so I was like, we got to double down on that. And so that’s what we did. And we just put that literally, we put that in the main image and sales jumped.

Bradley Sutton:

Was the metric that drove it click through rate?

Mitul:

I think it was click through rate and then just also conversion rate because we didn’t really lean into leak proof on the infographics as well as much. And so I think that’s the key thing too is when you’re battling China, you have to figure out what is it that people are actually wanting? And do you provide that solution? So not always easy. But it took us… I think it took us like 8 months to figure it out. So it’s not like, Oh, yeah, just figured run a program and I’ll know the answer. It’s lots of testing.

Bradley Sutton:

What are you doing now? And by the way, guys, when he says the hobby, we’re still talking about the sports card and card hobby. Pokemon. Speaking of that, I’m going to ask you what your current… What are you doing for fun? And are you still doing breaks? I remember you and Brandon back in the day, we’re getting these football breaks and getting these Joe Burrow cards and grails and stuff that some of them have completely tanked in price. I hope you sold them. By now, I mean, I had a whole bunch I got in those days, like some Zion Williamson cards that just have completely tanked and stuff.

Bradley Sutton:
But anyways, what are you doing now for the fun part? What are you doing for investment? Me, one of my main things, I mean, I made tons of money on investing in a player. You remember when I was in that group talking about Otani and I talked about cards I got for $100. One of the cards I got for $100 when I was in that group, I have on eBay right now for $8,000. And I’m easily going to be able to sell it by the end of this year. And so that’s one way of investing. But that’s almost like what he was talking about before, the gambling. Nobody knows how great a player is going to be.

Bradley Sutton:
You can have some ideas. So that’s one thing I was doing. I’m not doing much of that anymore, but I am big into Pokemon, the Japanese Pokemon, which I was way back in the day with my dad. But what I do now is every two, three months, I go to Japan, I buy about five to 10 hobby boxes. And what I’m finding is, even if they’re not something that goes viral, year over year, it doubles every year that I hold it. And how many things can you do that’s literally a guaranteed ROI of you’re just getting your money back year over year and you keep doubling it? So that’s how I’m doing the business side of it. Because honestly, I’m not passionate about Pokemon. I’m passionate about basketball cards and stuff like that.But what about you? What are you doing for investment now the hobby part of the hobby?

Mitul:

Yeah. So I got into Pokemon about two years ago before the boom with my daughter. And so we collect Charizards, Pikachu, and then Eevee is the other one that she loves. So from an investment side… And really, I learned this in the sports card area where you lose a lot of money. And I started learning to collect what I liked. Because when I look back at all the stuff that I bought and collected, all the stuff that I liked shot up in value. And all the stuff that I chased because of the hype, all fell. So one of the things right now, and I wish I’d done it, was Michael Jordan. I love Michael Jordan. Huge Michael Jordan collection.

Bradley Sutton:

Chicago, hello.

Mitul:

And had I only been buying Michael Jordan, just because I liked it, my investment portfolio would probably be worth a million dollars. But because I bought into Joe Burrow, and Jalen Hurts, and Justin Herbert, that is nowhere close to…

Bradley Sutton:

Hopefully not too much the guy from Miami. What’s his name? Tua?

Mitul:

Yeah, I’ve got some Tua. Yeah, Justin Fields. So there’s things you do for investment. I don’t think sports cards or even Pokemon is something you should do for an investment. But the way you’re doing it is smart, because you’re keeping it sealed. But yeah, I say buy what you like, so at least you can enjoy it. And then if it goes up in value, great. That’s my opinion in terms of Pokemon sports card. I know there’s going to be a lot of people who are going to say I’m completely wrong. But again, we’re also in a massive, massive hype right now where everything is 10x’d over the last year or two.

Bradley Sutton:

Yeah, my other strategy, I didn’t mention it, was there is a thrill of that gambling aspect when you do the breaks and stuff, but it is not a good way to spend money. So the way I kind of make it where it’s a little bit more to my favor is now I get in the breaks for mainly baseball and then some basketball, and I go for the teams that have Japanese players. And then that’s what I do to fund my Pokemon and my trips to Japan is I invest a lot here, maybe $1,000 or $1,500, and maybe I hit some, maybe I don’t.

Bradley Sutton:

But either way, I’m getting cards that I can sell in Japan for double what they are worth here. So what I’m buying it for is not very much here, because I’m doubling my money, and now I got the cash to go buy the Pokemon cards. And then I also have another, and I’m just giving out my strategy here, but I figure not many people can go to Japan six times a year like me, but there’s a lot of foreign players in Japan.

Bradley Sutton:

In other words, like Dominicans and players who played in MLB and stuff like that before. So there were nobodies before, maybe only minor leagues, maybe they had a Bowman draft card from before, but they never even hit the major leagues. I just invest heavily in these cards that are like $1, $2, $3, sell them for $10 because they have diehard fans. They’re superstars. They became superstars in Japan. And so that’s my other way of doing it.

Bradley Sutton:

But again, it’s fun. The whole thing is fun. Even if I wasn’t making money, just being in the hobby is fun. And so I’ve always tried to tell you guys, maybe it’s not basketball cards, but have something on the side that brings you joy to that somehow still ties to e-commerce and you get the best of both worlds.

Mitul:

Yeah. I forgot to mention, so I do card shows. That funds my hobby too, because the nice thing is I get to buy cards at discount, because obviously you’re a vendor, you’re paying to be there. So you buy it like 70, 80%, things like that. You do trades and stuff like that. So a lot of the cards that I have now, I get through trading and through buying and the profits that I make, I’m able to reinvest that into more Pokemon.

Mitul:

So that’s the nice thing too about building a business out of your hobby is then you can fund the hobby with your business, but you also have to be careful because I was talking to my friend who also was in the hobby and he got to the point where, if I remember correctly, I think it was him. I forget if it was him or someone else, where it became too much of a business and it sucked the fun out of it. So you also have to be careful with that.

Bradley Sutton:

That’s what you got. Completely side note here. I don’t remember if we were ever in a fantasy football league together, but I was getting so heavily in fantasy football, it sucked the fun out of football because then my teams that I liked, I was rooting against them because I had players from the other… And it was like, no, this has ruined it. So yeah, I do know what he’s talking about. Sometimes you can have a hobby and it could actually take the fun out of it if you make it too businessy. Anyways, a couple of things. If people want to reach out, find out your company again, give the links. And then if people who might be in the hobby here and want to know what you’re doing and maybe see if it’s something that they want to get into and they want to reach out to you privately, how can they find you on the interwebs?

Mitul:

So I’m on Facebook, Matool Patel. Yeah. And I’m friends with you on Facebook. So if you’re friends with Bradley, you can peruse his friend list and find me. Yeah. And then the company I work for is Navira.

Bradley Sutton:

Can I spell it?

Mitul:

N-A-V-I-R-A. And so we primarily work with… If you want to work with us, shoot me a message. If you need someone helping you with your Amazon.

Bradley Sutton:

All right. Well, thanks for driving out here. It took an hour and I went in the wrong terminal.

I literally am catching a flight to Zurich in about 30 minutes is boarding. So I better start packing up my setup here. Hope you guys enjoyed this episode and we’ll see you in the next one.

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